Permitted Development advice - single storey ext on 1930s terrace

[tom13m85]

Hi All, as per my intro we’re weighing up extending our house vs moving. Even with the calming of the housing market building seems cheaper albeit probably more complicated option to achieve what we want.

Our house is a 1930 terraced house. We’ve spoken to a couple of people (one builder, one design and build co) and received conflicting advice on what we’re allowed to do under permitted development. My main questions relates to a possible single storey extension to the rear of the property. Like many similar houses we have some dead space next to the galley kitchen that we’re looking to extend into to make a more open plan kitchen diner (image 1 below).

 

This space is 5.6m long and 3.5m (very crude image below also)

When i read the permitted development guidelines it states that you can extend upto 6m on a single storey terraced house. (Page 23 of gov doc below), which our plan falls within.

 

 

However, the one person who said its not possible, said that this would block too much of the neighbours light and wouldn’t get planning. When I said about being allowed 6m under PD, he said it’s only 3m, not 6m

 

i understand there is this 45* rule but i also read conflicting info on whether or not this applies to builds under PD. In the image shown on the gov doc it would surely always contravene the 45* rule on terraced houses?

 

i gather that if this does fall under PD then we need to consult with our neighbours under the neighbour consultation scheme, and they may be able to object based on loss of light, but I’m reluctant to spend 1000s on drawings etc, and get into discussions with our neighbour if its all irrelevant and requires full on planning permission, or is not going to be allowed. (In which case we’ll be abandoning the build plan and looking to move).

 

I gather this may not be a straight forward answer, but any thoughts/ feedback would be much appreciated. We’ve never done anything like this before so we’re learning as we go and it’s bloody complicated :-). Thanks in advance

 

Tom 

Edited April 21 by tom13m85

[ProDave]

Speak to your neighbour 2 doors to the right in your aerial picture.  It looks like he has done what you are proposing (with a flat roof)  Ask if it was PD or needed planning permission and if it needed PP was it easy or difficult.

[tom13m85]

12 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Speak to your neighbour 2 doors to the right in your aerial picture.  It looks like he has done what you are proposing (with a flat roof)  Ask if it was PD or needed planning permission and if it needed PP was it easy or difficult.

Cheers Dave, they’re end of terrace with an alleyway next to them and the house next to them is a different layout (70s build I believe) so assumed it might be different. Will ask them anyway though 

[joe90]

28 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Speak to your neighbour

Why not speak to your immediate neighbour and you will get a feel for their view on this, tell them it’s PD (which we feel it is) yes they may complain but the complaint has to be justified, not just “we don’t like it”. Drawings don’t have to cost £000,s, I did my own initially, find an architectural technician rather than an architect (if you know what you want) .

[tom13m85]

Ok thanks Joe. I’ll do that, I guess I just want to make sure I’m bot wasting time, but no harm in talking with them to get a feel. (They gutted the house in 2021 and their was no shortage of disruption that we put up with, so hopefully they’re accomodating.

[tom13m85]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

Why not speak to your immediate neighbour and you will get a feel for their view on this, tell them it’s PD (which we feel it is) yes they may complain but the complaint has to be justified, not just “we don’t like it”. Drawings don’t have to cost £000,s, I did my own initially, find an architectural technician rather than an architect (if you know what you want) .

Hi Joe, one other question - in your experience does the 45* rules come into play if the plan is determined within PD? Ie could the neighbours throw this at us if they do object.

[joe90]

I believe the 45’ rule does apply to permitted development but your neighbour may not object!  My brothers neighbour built an extension within the 45’ but my brother did not object and it was ok.  Some bedtime reading….https://www.jabdesign.co.uk/blog-2/what-is-the-45-degree-rule-and-why-is-it-important

Edited April 21 by joe90

[Temp]

Has the house already had a rear extension since it was built?

[tom13m85]

I’m not sure, but if it was I assume it was pre 50s (would have to check deeds) All the houses on the row, and same on ither side of road, are the same ie the long galley kitchen at the rear and what was previously coal shed or toilet at the end.

 

Edited April 21 by tom13m85

[tom13m85]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Has the house already had a rear extension since it was built?

I’m not sure, but if it was I assume it was pre 50s (would have to check deeds) All the houses on the row, and same on ither side of road, are the same ie the long galley kitchen at the rear and what was previously coal shed or toilet at the end.

[Temp]

58 minutes ago, tom13m85 said:

I’m not sure, but if it was I assume it was pre 50s (would have to check deeds) All the houses on the row, and same on ither side of road, are the same ie the long galley kitchen at the rear and what was previously coal shed or toilet at the end.

 

If they are all the same it was probably original. I asked because if it was a more recent extension it  might affect permitted development rights. 

[Redbeard]

 

On 21/04/2024 at 10:04, tom13m85 said:

When I said about being allowed 6m under PD, he said it’s only 3m, not 6m

First hit on 'Neighbour consultation permitted development' gave me:

 

https://designfor-me.com/project-types/extensions/what-is-the-neighbour-consultation-scheme/

 

So a 3m extension will not be consulted upon with your neighbours, and a 6m one will, AFAICS. I do not know any more about the specifics of the consultation procedure - can a neighbour somehow block a development, for example - but there is an appeals process, it appears, so I am guessing that a 6m ext'n is not a 'done deal' till it's 'done'.

[tom13m85]

1 hour ago, Redbeard said:

 

First hit on 'Neighbour consultation permitted development' gave me:

 

https://designfor-me.com/project-types/extensions/what-is-the-neighbour-consultation-scheme/

 

So a 3m extension will not be consulted upon with your neighbours, and a 6m one will, AFAICS. I do not know any more about the specifics of the consultation procedure - can a neighbour somehow block a development, for example - but there is an appeals process, it appears, so I am guessing that a 6m ext'n is not a 'done deal' till it's 'done'.

Thanks Redbeard. One of the issues i’ve encountered is there are lots of these kind of blogs/ sites with information some of which contradicts others, ie some mention consultation, some not, some ref 45* rule, some say it’s not required. 
 

i think i’ve found the official info I need now via the Planning Portal site (took some digging!). Thanks

[DevilDamo]

You would require Prior Approval and neighbours that share a boundary with you would be notified. If nobody objects, then fine. If however the most impacted neighbour objects on loss of daylight, then the LPA may well look into the 45 degree lines. That being said, some LPA’s adopt a 45 degree line for two storey extensions and a 60 degree line for single storey extensions. The impact would also depend on what room(s) the windows or doors serve as it mostly applies to habitable rooms.

[tom13m85]

Thanks for this, . I think our next move is to talk to the neighbours and gauge their feedback.

 

Thanks everyone for replies, you’ve given me the pointers needed, much appreciated