My Heat Pump Experience 2022-2024

[Green Power]

In 2022 I installed a heat pump in a property I was renting out and in 2023 moved in there myself and have now lived though a whole winter with the heat pump as well. I explain on my blog why I did it, how much it cost, and what issues there were, and so on.

 

It's 1,000 words long, and at the below link.

 

I previously did two threads about the cost and environmental impact of the install on this forum which are linked to in the post below.

 

I hope this helps and let me know if anyone has any questions.

 

https://foxesinchile.wordpress.com/2024/04/09/my-heat-pump-experience/

Edited April 9 by Green Power

[MikeSharp01]

1 hour ago, Green Power said:

 

I hope this helps and let me know if anyone has any questions.

 

https://foxesinchile.wordpress.com/2024/04/09/my-heat-pump-experience/

Great blog.

[Green Power]

Thanks - check the rest of the blog if you're interested - it is more of a climate blog though, so depends on your interest in that rather than heat pumps specifically.

[MikeSharp01]

8 minutes ago, Green Power said:

- it is more of a climate blog though, so depends on your interest in that rather than heat pumps specifically.

Climate is as important as my heat pump that's for sure we are trying to do our bit building a wooden framed house to passive standard, trying to keep waste to a minimum, paying attention to details like air tightness. The fact is climate is a wicked problem and although we can all do our bit individually, we need to do so much more collectively and recognise the cost this will be across the piece. Still what price can you put on your great grandchildren' great grandchildren?

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Climate is as important as my heat pump

Bit in the Guardian about how the UK could produce more RE electricity with only a small impact on land area.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/09/england-could-produce-13-times-more-renewable-energy-using-less-than-3-of-land-analysis

 

What is so annoying is that I was at Exeter University a decade and a half ago and we had already worked this out.

Did I hear on the radio that we have broken monthly temperature records for the last ten month?  Now I know some of that is because we are in an El Nino period and next year we will probably not break so many records, but if you every talk to someone what is complaining about the rain, ask what they are doing about it.

 

[SteamyTea]

@Green Power

 

From your blog

 

"You may be told by a professional installer that your house isn’t suitable for a heat pump."

 

How true, had an electrical technician tell me that a heat pump would not work in my house as I have wooden windows.

Obviously a man that fell asleep during the classes about conductivity and resistance.  Probably why we was swapping meters and not wiring houses.

[MikeSharp01]

45 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Obviously a man that fell asleep during the classes about conductivity and resistance.  Probably why we was swapping meters and not wiring houses.

I think we need a political wing to Buildhub who can ask questions. I mentioned yesterday that installers should be asked how many degrees in Engineering they have in the company.  This because, given the sophistication of the systems they are selling, I think they will need 1x mechanical engineer for the thermodynamics, 1x Electrical / electronic engineering for all the power and control systems and another in software engineering / computer networking to handle that aspect and finally a systems engineer to deal with the integration. If they are chartered engineers then you can seek redress from their professional body and either they or their company will carry professional indemnity (PI) which could be claimed against for inappropriate installs. The trouble is that too many of our engineering graduates go into finance and traditional plumbers don't want to grow in the graduate skills direction anyway. To be fair our daughters favourite plumber is a graduate and very happy plumbing in Dulwich.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

I mentioned yesterday that installers should be asked how many degrees in Engineering they have in the company. 

Just protect the term 'Engineer'.

 

A degree in Engineering Commissioning/Process Control would be useful.

 

The Thermodynamics is really easy, only a few, very simple and intuitive rules to follow.  4 only really.

 

Edited April 10 by SteamyTea

[Iceverge]

12 hours ago, Green Power said:

In 2022 I installed a heat pump in a property I was renting out and in 2023 moved in there myself and have now lived though a whole winter with the heat pump as well. I explain on my blog why I did it, how much it cost, and what issues there were, and so on.

 

It's 1,000 words long, and at the below link.

 

I previously did two threads about the cost and environmental impact of the install on this forum which are linked to in the post below.

 

I hope this helps and let me know if anyone has any questions.

 

https://foxesinchile.wordpress.com/2024/04/09/my-heat-pump-experience/

 

Will give that a spin with a cuppa later. Cheers. 

[MikeSharp01]

42 minutes ago, Iceverge said:

Will give that a spin with a cuppa later. Cheers. 

Worth a read IMO.

[Green Power]

Solar and wind don't even really use the land. You can still grow crops and graze animals under wind turbines and solar panels. Perhaps wind turbines better for crops so they don't block out the sun, and maybe solar better for grazing animals so they get the option to choose between shade/shelter and sun.

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

how many degrees in Engineering they have in the company. 

 

3 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

To be fair our daughters favourite plumber is a graduate and very happy plumbing in Dulwich.

 

I think we've developed too much of a bias about degrees and the value they actually bring. I've met plenty of non-degree, non-formally trained engineers that will blow the socks of many engineering degree holders in both theoretical and practical knowledge. I also think we've developed a problematic prejudice towards manual work versus the degree holder.

 

I hold a Master's degree, I studied aerospace engineering at degree level (but changed course during the degree as I got bored with the extent of mathematical modelling in front of computers) and then also studied acoustics, thermodynamics and fluid dynamics during a period where I designed exhaust systems. Now I am a heating 'engineer' installing heating systems, gas boilers, doing reparis and servicing part time - I actually find quite a lot of it very rewarding.

 

Now, with all that being said, I do have an issue with the level of training and certification in the heating industry - I think it's appalling.

 

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Just protect the term 'Engineer'.

 

But the problem with that is that is turns from protect to protectionism which becomes counterproductive. There would need to be some careful definition of what engineer actually meant and recognise various routes that can be taken to achieve this. Am I an engineer if I can take a lump of metal and form it to become a useful component part of a machine, whether as repair or new design, or am I an engineer only if I can sit in front of a cad/cam and produce design drawings along with some calculations?

[JohnMo]

3 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

17 minutes ago, SimonD said:

 

I an engineer if I can take a lump of metal and form it to become a useful component part of a machine, whether as repair or new design, or am I an engineer only if I can sit in front of a cad/cam and produce design drawings along with some calculations

Both could be an engineer, or neither could an engineer. Depending on your level of learning.

 

An engineer needs to understand things at a fundamental level, know the theory, this comes from training.

 

If can form a useful competent out of metal AND you know why (from your training) you have a certain surface finish and hardness and what the bearing clearance are and why, you maybe an an engineer, if you are just following a set of drawings blindly, you are not an engineer.

 

Same as the person in from of a computer.

 

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, JohnMo said:

Both could be an engineer, or neither could an engineer. Depending on your level of learning.

 

An engineer needs to understand things at a fundamental level, know the theory, this comes from training.

 

If can form a useful competent out of metal AND you know why (from your training) you have a certain surface finish and hardness and what the bearing clearance are and why, you maybe an an engineer, if you are just following a set of drawings blindly, you are not an engineer.

 

Same as the person in from of a computer.

 

 

Yes, but to play devil's advocate, what constitutes understanding at a fundamental level?

 

I know from when I was designing exhaust systems, fundamental understanding didn't exist due to the complexities of the situation and therefore intuitive understanding still played a significant role in design even when using available tools. It's similar to the understanding of finishes and clearances - when designing new things it's common not to know the required parameters which means experimentation and inquiry, and this process can often lead to a rethinking of the how and why. It just depends on the domain really but sometimes engineering is also about making something work without the understanding, initially at least.

 

Blindly following a manual, instructions or a drawing is not really engineering, I agree.

[JohnMo]

36 minutes ago, SimonD said:

but to play devil's advocate

All true, suppose it also depends on qualifications as well, city and guilds levels is a technician only, NVQs, ONC similar. Would expect an Engineer status doesn't really apply until you get to HNC and degree level qualifications in a relevant subject.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Would expect an Engineer status doesn't really apply until you get to HNC and degree level qualifications in a relevant subject.

That has generally been the minimum in most countries that protect the term 'Engineer'.

 

My Father was an electrical engineer, he was (expletive deleted)ing useless at anything mechanical. I studied Automotive Engineering, which is really just Mechanical Engineering with a bit more thermodynamics and examples from the automotive arena, rather than a foundry or a plastics factory.

Oddly though, I learnt more chemistry doing my second degree in renewable energy than I learnt previously.

I think I got lucky with who was lecturing us though.

 

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

All true, suppose it also depends on qualifications as well, city and guilds levels is a technician only, NVQs, ONC similar. Would expect an Engineer status doesn't really apply until you get to HNC and degree level qualifications in a relevant subject.

 

Yes, I think it must depend on a certain amount of qualifications but with a caveat that someone without the qualifications can still achieve it through professional practise development, which would be demonstrable in some way. I also think that any academic qualification has to be balanced by practical too. It's still a shame that someone who's completed an HNC followed by an HND is often still seen as inferior to someone having completed a degree, although I'm not sure if I think an HNC on its own is enough for engineer status without further experience.

 

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

That has generally been the minimum in most countries that protect the term 'Engineer'.

 

I don't think an HNC would be anywhere close, but degree equivalent being the minimum. I think in some countries they count study credits at graduate level.

[SteamyTea]

55 minutes ago, SimonD said:

I don't think an HNC would be anywhere close, but degree equivalent being the minimum.

I don't know about now, but a few years back (25 years ago when I worked in the USA and Australia), It was considered good enough and got me extra credit points on my visa (I actually don't need a USA visa as I have an indefinite one (an side benefit of being a refugee at one stage).

[MikeSharp01]

8 hours ago, SimonD said:

I think we've developed too much of a bias about degrees and the value they actually bring. I've met plenty of non-degree, non-formally trained engineers that will blow the socks of many engineering degree holders in both theoretical and practical knowledge. I also think we've developed a problematic prejudice towards manual work versus the degree holder.

Totally agree, the problem is having some metric we can easily assess the company by - word of mouth works well but we are not there in this situation but essentially anybody who can get it right and is able to explain it, not just sell it, to me gets my vote.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, MikeSharp01 said:

problem is having some metric

“all science is either physics or stamp collecting.” 

Ernest Rutherford 

[JohnMo]

14 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

Totally agree, the problem is having some metric we can easily assess the company by

At various points in my career (at some points prior to getting degree), I managed and mentored nearly qualified and also Chartered or nearly Chartered Engineers, most had no clue how to move high level learning into real life situations.  They could speak at great lengths about NPSH (net pressure suction head) for pumps, but would walk straight past a pump on a plant as they had never seen or touched one. They think they are Engineers because they are allowed to be Chartered, but really shouldn't be allowed to be chartered for another decade.

 

There is a lot to be said about starting at the bottom and moving up the ladder, with suitable learning on the way.

[MikeSharp01]

46 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

There is a lot to be said about starting at the bottom and moving up the ladder, with suitable learning on the way.

Yes and the chartered thing is a can of worms really because achieving it, well the undergraduate bit, increasingly focuses on wider theoretical application of knowledge not practical application and the two are getting further apart. AHEP4 (Accreditation of Higher Education Programmes - from the Engineering Council) and the rapid diversification of technology takes this further, or it seems to. By broadening the Learning Outcomes to cope the depth inevitably gets reduced and fight all you might to increase / maintain the practical aspects the lab work gets diminished for this and funding reasons.