University Student Looking for a little help, with some 1:5 Details (Parapet Detail, Curtain wall Foundation)

[ConnerR]

Hey Guys, Im a Uni Student studying ATD, was wonderings if anyone would be willing to have a  look at at some drawings I've produced, Im sure they have lots of errors and I was hoping to minimise them, thanks for your time and any help advice, is much appreciated.

 

The First Detail is a Curtain Wall Foundation Detail, and im getting very confused with Weather proof membrane's.

The Second Is my attempt at a parapet detai between the Mansard floor and second floor  I know I need to somehow include a gutter which Im also stuck on.

 

If you have any queries feel free to ask, hopefully managed to upload to in the right forum

Cheers

 

[JohnMo]

The wall section has plenty of cold bridges to sort out. You insulation should form a continuous unbroken line, you seem to have breaks everywhere. You I beam bolted into the concrete, just straight through the insulation, lots of condensation will occur. The steel by the glazing also looks the same.

[ETC]

Can you put numbers on the elements?

[Gus Potter]

On 08/04/2024 at 18:44, ConnerR said:

Hey Guys, Im a Uni Student studying ATD

Well done you.

 

As @ETC says annotate this up. Admire what you are doing, if you can get handle on this then the world is you oyster.

 

Here are a few quick comments, some are obtuse but you'll learn this as you go.. don't be disheartened mind. Have a look on the internet for some of the terms I use if not clear. 

 

1/ On the curtain wall where the glass comes down you show a flashing to shed the water outwards. Flashings need a safety lip. Show add that as the manufacture of the flashing will recommend it as a standard, so folk don't get cut on the sharp edge and it weathers much better for example, also stiffens the edge of the flashing.

 

2/ Make sure you show any mastic and note it as say flexible polysulphide mastic or similar and approved. BC can pull you up on this. Contractors will love you as it gives them room for manouevre.

 

3/ Your concrete anchors look a bit off SE wise. The two near the glazing are too close together (causes anchor spacing problems at detailed SE design stage, you could have to redraw it all!)  and too close to the edge of the concrete.. all will trip you up later once the SE gets going. The two holding the I shaped section down are too long. Show them embedded into the concrete by 130mm. Also show the thread of the bolt extending above the nut by 5mm unless you are using expanding anchors.

 

4/ I think your mansard roof is too close to the box gutter as:

 

(a) You'll need to get a drill etc into fix it... buildability.

(b) The box gutter will have a run on it.. how do you achieve this and make all look tidy at the end of the day.

(c) It will choke with debris / moss as the cladding is too close to the bottom of the box gutter

(d) You will get spashing back up the cladding which could void the manufacture's warranty.

 

BC regs in the spirit of things like to keep things 150mm above the spash zone. Simple solution.. just lift the cladding clear of the box gutter by 150mm?

 

Ok don't get too hung up on the above.

 

The best advice I can give you is to be brave when drawing. If you don't know something just put a note " to be confirmed" and then say why it needs to be confirmed.. it's ok to say you don't know!

 

Below is a screen shot from a section drawing from one of my jobs. I use red colour to flag up a big structural safety issue and softer colours to pick out the bits that make the drawing easy to read. At the top there is a note where I say "also prop the ceiling joists to prevent punching through.." here what I'm doing it to try and  communicate why I want something done in a certain way and what other folk need to do to make it all work. 

 

You'll also see how I'm flagging up stuff about temporary propping ect SE wise at the top of the drawing, no strong boys etc. This drawing also has a figure of a person.. bit odd .. I do this as soon as you open the drawing you get a feel for the scale, yes it's not true SE / technical detail stuff but my job is to make it easy for everyone to read an understand what I want them to do. I also dimension where I can the height of the person to avoid later "complications" and accusation that I may have shrunk / increased the figure height to make things look bigger / smaller.
@ETC? surely not sir? But other's are not so honest as we know.. some folk alter the drawing aspect scale for planning purposes.

The drawings above are telling a storey and targeted to the reader who will be a local builder, BC,  the checking SE and the Client who has a technical background. The real objective is.. yes to provide the technical detail and that is what @ConnerR you'll probably get assessed on. But run this by you lecturer and see if they will add marks by using colour, adding explanatory notes which shows that you understand what you are drawing and how someone can take your drawings and build something from them. The annotation notes on a drawing are often as important as the detail. I'm not talking about the massive long text list down the side of the drawing.. more the annotation. I use arrows as the reader can see what I'm pointing at! It takes a bit more time but helps avoid errors. Contractors are busy folk and don't have time to read pish.

 

Below is a bit of a fascia detail from the same job. Again I'm using colour and notes to try and pick out the important bits on this drawing.  Also see how I offer alternative warm roof fixings to the Contractor but make it clear how I want them to penetrate the timbers. I use a technique to denote things on the near side and far side.. steel fabrication drawings often have this annotation. But if you do this you need to have a text box that explains the annotation.. It can be a good tool as it declutters the drawing if the annotations gets too congested.

 

 

Below is a totally different style of drawing from the same job but using a  specialist steel designer software package. It's two fabrication drawings for the steel fabricator..who take no prisoners if you get it wrong! The first is a general arrangement 3d drawing, the second is what is call an assembly drawing of beam B2.

 

 

 

Beam B2

 

 

I hope the above gives you and insight into how we communicate by drawing what needs to be done and the different syles / ways of doing it.

 

Keep posting as you make progress with your studies and all the best.

 

 

Edited April 10 by Gus Potter

[SteamyTea]

7 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

The drawings above are telling a storey

I am pretty sure I said you need to write a book about all this.

Is that woman drunk? Looks like the lush I saw staggering down Market Jew Street last Sunday evening.

[ConnerR]

Hey, guys I appreciate your responses, especially Gus thts really helped me out, Ive tried to sort out the drawings a bit today but unfortunately spent most my time creating a render which turnt out shit but anyway.

Ive been watching lots of videos on  cold briding and I understand the concept of not being able to break the insulation line but how can you attach anything to the outside it seems impossible.

Ive tried to make the drawings clearer by following your guidance but ive got to the point when im just a lil lost at this point with the project, Id go to a lecturer but the way the uni programmes this suff is mad, we hav'nt been had lessons for past 3 weeks and the hand in is the first lesson back from easter break ,its like they want us to suffer

 

Id thought I would post my progress, so heres the changes I've made so far plus some 1:200 plans and the shit render I made, If anyone would like the assess my entire project pm me and Ill send the entire project out

Take care peeps

Also ignore the added pv fin Im sure it wont affect things 😅 

If anyone has any tips to sort out the Thermal bridge solution id pay you but im broke student lol

[ConnerR]

@Gus Potter@ETC

[Gus Potter]

On 10/04/2024 at 08:41, SteamyTea said:

Is that woman drunk?

No, that's my Mum in the 1970's.

 

On 12/04/2024 at 00:01, ConnerR said:

Hey, guys

Hi Conner a few points. Have copied text later and made points in line in italic.

 

Hey, guys I appreciate your responses, especially Gus thts really helped me out, Ive tried to sort out the drawings a bit today but unfortunately spent most my time creating a render which turnt out shit but anyway.

Rendering is tricky. I'm not very good at it. Sometimes I do it on a very basic level but I'm not qualified to comment. The only things I would say is that in render 2 you have picked out potential staining at the bottom of the timber cladding which is an elegant touch. Well done you.

 

I'm not sure if you have shrunk the sections alongside the render but if you are going to dimension the renders then make sure the dims can be read at the scale you are using. If not take them out and put an info box at the side of the drawings that contains the finished floor to ceiling levels and the floor thickness. Also on your section (generated from the render) there seems to be something that looks like people  / furniture but the apsect ratio looks off. Take them out as it clutters you work.

 

 

Ive been watching lots of videos on  cold briding and I understand the concept of not being able to break the insulation line but how can you attach anything to the outside it seems impossible.

Ive tried to make the drawings clearer by following your guidance but ive got to the point when im just a lil lost at this point with the project, Id go to a lecturer but the way the uni programmes this suff is mad, we hav'nt been had lessons for past 3 weeks and the hand in is the first lesson back from easter break ,its like they want us to suffer

What you are being asked to draw is very difficult. To put this into context.. I've been in the building trade and a designer / SE for 40 years and I find it hard. If you look back at my section through the roof you'll see there are cold bridges, there is discontinuity in the vapour control layer, I'm wrestling with fire protection, trying to get standard off the shelf brackets / standard timber sizes to work, a soil drain is weaved in there and I need a bit of ventilation. You are being asked to produce something equally difficult!  For a bit of reassurance these details I posted too a lot of hours to get them the way I wanted. The roof section took several hours and a lot of thought, agonising to get a compromise that is buildable on a renovation type project which it is. Yes it is not perfect and has deficiencies but such is life.

 

I totally get how you feel. Your Lecturer has gone AWOL and the online stuff is rubbish. No support.. left to fend for yourself.. shocking!

 

Id thought I would post my progress, so heres the changes I've made so far plus some 1:200 plans and the shit render I made, If anyone would like the assess my entire project pm me and Ill send the entire project out

Take care peeps

Also ignore the added pv fin Im sure it wont affect things 😅 

If anyone has any tips to sort out the Thermal bridge solution id pay you but im broke student lol

 

Looks like you are pushed for time!

 

Ok chase the marks and don't through away marks on the basics.

 

1/ Check your drawing title box, and double check.

2/ In the title box make sure you state say " Scale As shown at A3, A2" etc.

3/ If using colour note on the drawing.. state these drawings should be printed in colour.

4/ On your render add in a scale bar.. if you can as it is an Architectural drawing. Think you have one but double check.

5/ On your detail you use numbers to identify materials. They don't seem to match up e.g parapet detail item 22, item 13 on same for example. Fix this.

6/ Your material identification.. some start capital letters other not. Check this and sort it. Tiny things, good you have stated the dimensions but not "Dimensions(mm)" more Dimensions (mm) see the spacing? Remember your Lecturer starts at the top.. if you get the top of a list of materials right it puts them in a good mood.. if that is possible?

 

The nitty gritty.

 

Ok you have identified a cold bridge. Some of the stuff you have drawn is bit off, but ask ten folk like me and you'll get ten different answers! I think what you should do is use you drawings to show how much you do know but don't have time to detail. In the case of cold bridging say something like " potential cold bridge" detail to be further developed in consultation with product manufacturer and SE etc. Use a leader line to point to the area in question. You could use a italic text to highlight these areas, don't use a revision cloud as this has a specific meaning.

 

The fixings.. there is no way you can be expected to know all the ins and outs. Again, say fixing details to be developed by SE and reviewed.

 

In summary as you are pushed for time let the Lecturer know that you know the issues and leave it at that.

 

Hope this helps, keep your head up! Oh and don't check my spelling / grammer!