BotusBuild Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 In this article, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-68575271 the following statement is made The National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) estimates that air source heat pumps - the most common type for households - costs £10,000 more than a gas boiler on average. Bunch of muppets, likely comparing the cost of a full heating system including an ASHP against just the gas boiler itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc55 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Saw that article earlier and must admit that I was troubled by the price comparison, just not clear what they are comparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 41 minutes ago, mjc55 said: just not clear what they are comparing. If you take the typical MCS install, they take the £7500, charge full retail for the heat pump, new cylinder, a bunch new radiators, a couple of mile of 28mm copper and then about 20 man days labour. Soon get to £10k. Typical boiler installation, take old boiler off wall, clip a new one one, couple pipe mods and any you go. 1 to 2 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 And the following paragraph says: "But some energy companies are offering heat pumps as low as £500 with the government grant." So you can't fairly say that that is piss poor reporting. It is entirely reasonable to say that the cost of a retro fit heat pump installation is likely to be £10,000 more than a gas boiler replacement before the £7,500 BUS grant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 It's the "system" built up around the BUS grant that forces a cartel to charge as they please. Perhaps the journalists would do better if they looked at an installation in detail, costed the equipment supplied, noted how many people and how long it took then ask "so how can you be charging £4K for 2 man days work"? (for example) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotusBuild Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 26 minutes ago, billt said: "But some energy companies are offering heat pumps as low as £500 with the government grant." So you can't fairly say that that is piss poor reporting. So £8,000 in total!! Combine that with what JohnMo says: 41 minutes ago, JohnMo said: If you take the typical MCS install, they take the £7500, charge full retail for the heat pump, new cylinder, a bunch new radiators, a couple of mile of 28mm copper and then about 20 man days labour. Soon get to £10k. and what I said: 1 hour ago, BotusBuild said: likely comparing the cost of a full heating system including an ASHP against just the gas boiler itself and I stand by what I say - piss poor reporting yet again dissing the installation of heat pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotusBuild Posted March 18 Author Share Posted March 18 1 minute ago, ProDave said: Perhaps the journalists would do better if they looked at an installation in detail, costed the equipment supplied, noted how many people and how long it took then ask "so how can you be charging £4K for 2 man days work"? (for example) Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billt Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 4 hours ago, BotusBuild said: and I stand by what I say - piss poor reporting yet again dissing the installation of heat pumps. Sorry but I don't see what is piss poor about that report. A typical retrofit to a reasonable standard is quite likely to have a sticker price of £10,000+ before grant. Some companies are offering a £500 install after the grant. The reporting seems accurate to me as far as it goes. I've retrofitted an ASHP; it cost me a great deal more than £10,000 in parts alone. It's a journalistic story not an in depth analysis of domestic heat pumps and is accurate as far as it goes. Why whinge about journalist doing what journalists do? Anyone more seriously interested isn't going to rely on a space filling story like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 5 hours ago, JohnMo said: Soon get to £10k. I would love a quote of £10K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 39 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: I would love a quote of £10K. Are you getting quotes bigger than £10k for a new build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Yes I think the best so far is £11K plus (so minus grant we will pay £4K.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 10 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: Yes I think the best so far is £11K plus (so minus grant we will pay £4K.) You could do without the grant for that or less. Full price ASHP £2.5k, cylinder £1k, bits and bobs £500. I ran my cables the electrician charged me 2 hours for termination and testing. I did the plumbing, but a plumber for two days max 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 18 minutes ago, JohnMo said: 36 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: You could do without the grant for that or less. Full price ASHP £2.5k, cylinder £1k, bits and bobs £500. Not quite I don't think. I did some estimates of the equipment wholesale costs, my brother-in-law has an account at one of the suppliers, and its around £4k and we won't get MCS certificate. I do need to negotiate hard and see what I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: and its around £4k and we won't get MCS certificate Why would you need an MCS certificate? Got my prices from City plumbing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, JohnMo said: Are you getting quotes bigger than £10k for a new build? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 13 minutes ago, Post and beam said: Yes Gee you are all being taken for a ride. An ASHP install on a new build should cost no more than a £1000 more, than a decent gas boiler install on PDHW. And that's without any grants. Plus there is is no such thing a permitted development arguments, that seem to go on, with most threads on here, as permitted development does not apply while under planning permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Gee you are all being taken for a ride. More than one seller. Not taken for a ride yet as i have not comitted to anything. The highest price was Nu-Heat. The comparison with a Gas boiler install changes slightly when referring to a new build of course. In our case it would be £6.5k just to get a mains gas supply onto the plot. So one way or another it will be ASHP, just need to finalise whether its via the Grant or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, JohnMo said: Got my prices from City plumbing I was getting the wholesale prices for the exact same kit as the quotes, they came in between £3.8K and £4.3K. I can get a cheaper heat pump and if I loose the buffer it comes down a bit more. Had a really good conversation with one of the companies technical guys today which went well on my side as I got a good impression for my control options and some of the limitations of the heat pump (Modulation depth). I expect they thought I was some rather odd customer asking questions about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 8 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said: went well on my side as I got a good impression for my control options and some of the limitations of the heat pump (Modulation depth). I just make mine run at near to full chat for heating the house, set point of 35, knowing that the heat pump will only achieve 33 before the thermostat thermostat trips it. Depending on house temperature and heat loss due to outside temperature, I will have an hour and half run or 12 hours run time. Now all at 13p per kWh, with battery. Even if you want to run for long periods at low temp modulation helps, but as long as the water capacity engaged is there you get runs over about 10 minutes and power consumption doesn't really take a hit. Example I run a single fan coil in our garden room, it puts out about 500 to 1000W. My wife wants it warm in there until lunch time. So although the house is satisfied for heating, I keep the house UFH pump running and use the thermostat for the house to move the set point of the UFH electronic mixer from 35 to 28. This almost closes the mixing valve, but give me a working water capacity to enable the ASHP to run for about 20 minutes at a time, while only providing around 500W to the fan coil from a 6kW heat pump (min output 3.5kW), the house buffering the rest. This gives an almost constant temperature in the summer house. All done without a buffer, the volumiser I installed is now isolated, as it bought no advanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 41 minutes ago, Post and beam said: when referring to a new build of course Only referencing the actual hardware install, not the utility side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotusBuild Posted March 19 Author Share Posted March 19 14 hours ago, JohnMo said: Full price ASHP £2.5k To all those saying this is not poor reporting, JohnMo has quite nicely provided the price for an ASHP itself as £2,500. Not the £10,000 more than a gas boiler as quoted in the inaccurate reporting on the BBC website. They should report what makes up the £10,000+ figure. They are not comparing apples with apples - or in the case on heat source against another. My case rests. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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