building control

[jpadie]

dear all

 

I've just been let down by a second electrician on a small project. 

 

the first approved the first fix for me to close the walls this was in med Dec. the walls are now closed and I took a video thankfully.  the second electrician was quoting for second fix and sign off (small garden room) and pointed out that I needed a much bigger feed to the building.  this evening he came back saying that he didn't feel honourable quoting as he could see I knew what I was doing and that it would cost less than 500 quid to get signed off by building control.  whereas he would need to "spend many hours testing" what I'd done.  I don't buy this personally as there are only 8 circuits and the wires are single runs.  but reading between the lines he doesn't think he can be properly competitive and probably he is worried about complying with his NAPIT scheme.

 

So ... can anyone shed some detailed light on what the process is to get signed off for the electrics, please?   I've been out of the UK for 25 years and have no idea about this stuff.

 

thanks in advance

justin

 

[Nickfromwales]

I'd say he just wants to do a proper, thorough job tbf. And it would be many hours of testing to be thorough. It's also not great work, to come in and test someone else's work (especially a non-qualified home owner aka DIY'er) and then put your name to it. I would do as he suggested and go the BC route, if you are capable of completing the works?

 

[jpadie]

Yes.  Entirely happy to do the work myself. 

But I'm completely in the dark as to what needs to be done with and for building control.  Hence my plea as to whether anyone can shed light on how this works, what is needed, to whom I talk etc etc.

[Nickfromwales]

You talk to building control  They don't bite mate! They will tell you what's needed etc and will help you to the finish line.

[Redbeard]

Easiest 'application route' is via a Building Notice. Look up your LA BC dept and search Building Notice. It's basically a fee and a pro forma which says 'I'm about to do this. (Strictly!) I will be starting in no less than 2 days, and you can come and look'.

 

That's it. I don't know the fee for elecs but in my LA at least they 'buy in' a suitably-qualified person from 'outside', so you'll probably pay commercial testing rates plus a mark-up, I guess.

[Alan Ambrose]

>>>  I needed a much bigger feed to the building

 

Well I would check that out, of course.

 

Maybe a third party EICR after the fact will help get BC over the line. EICRs are very cheap considering the amount of work involved.

Edited February 8 by Alan Ambrose

[jpadie]

thank you all.  I'm a bit deaf so cannot reliably call the BC to talk it through so I'm off to Godalming to knock on their door and get the right forms and fees.  

[jpadie]

off I went. and the car broke down so I'm back at home with a motor in limp-mode!  tried calling BC and had a conversation that I mostly heard.  the lady didn't really know what was needed but said the fee for electrics was £400.  she didn't want to take money until she'd double checked with her colleagues as there is no current BC application in place (internal floor space is 11m2).  the fee covers up to two inspections and 8 circuits. 

[OwenF]

FWIW, I’m currently in this process myself. I too have been let down by an electrician and am pursuing doing the work myself.
 

A couple of points in no particular order

 

• only notifiable electrics need BC involvement. New circuits, consumer units and bathroom/outside are the three. If you’re doing it as part of another BC job (new build etc) then it seems they want to know about any electrics being done

• strictly they have to be notified BEFORE works start. This means involving them part way through (I.e. after first fix) is problematic [i’m in this dilemma myself and don’t know the outcome yet 😬]

• they will try to dissuade you. The BC person I spoke to on the phone didn’t know how it works and tried to convince me it wasn’t possible. The Regulations clearly give homeowner installation as an option. They just make it very difficult.
• the fees are confusing. One fee it’s the BC charge for notifiable electrics (mine was around £2-300). Then they charge you a ‘third party contractor fee’. Mine was about £250+VAT. This is on top of the BC charge.

 

sounds like your electrician maybe doesn’t want the work tbh. Incidentally NAPIT are (one of?) the only scheme that has a third party certification. But I get the impression no-one is willing to use it.

 

absolutely bewilders me that that the option for a homeowner to do compliant work and have it checked is so difficult. Yet people who bodge stuff and keep it quiet just get away with it…..like some qualified electricians!

[jpadie]

11 hours ago, OwenF said:

FWIW, I’m currently in this process myself. I too have been let down by an electrician and am pursuing doing the work myself.
 

A couple of points in no particular order

 

• only notifiable electrics need BC involvement. New circuits, consumer units and bathroom/outside are the three. If you’re doing it as part of another BC job (new build etc) then it seems they want to know about any electrics being done

• strictly they have to be notified BEFORE works start. This means involving them part way through (I.e. after first fix) is problematic [i’m in this dilemma myself and don’t know the outcome yet 😬]

• they will try to dissuade you. The BC person I spoke to on the phone didn’t know how it works and tried to convince me it wasn’t possible. The Regulations clearly give homeowner installation as an option. They just make it very difficult.
• the fees are confusing. One fee it’s the BC charge for notifiable electrics (mine was around £2-300). Then they charge you a ‘third party contractor fee’. Mine was about £250+VAT. This is on top of the BC charge.

 

sounds like your electrician maybe doesn’t want the work tbh. Incidentally NAPIT are (one of?) the only scheme that has a third party certification. But I get the impression no-one is willing to use it.

 

absolutely bewilders me that that the option for a homeowner to do compliant work and have it checked is so difficult. Yet people who bodge stuff and keep it quiet just get away with it…..like some qualified electricians!

 

Thank you.   Your experience is extremely useful to understand.  I'm a little concerned that I will get nowhere with this but let's see!   

 

I'm keen to get a second view on what I've done and will do from a safety perspective.  The garden room is on the boundary and under a spruce tree. So if there's arcing or other fire starting behaviour from the electrics then there's a strong chance of very rapid spreading.   I had an electrical fire from an immersion water heater (electrician installed) about 6 years ago. So it's an evidence based fear!  That was caused by insufficient torque on the contactor leading to sparking.  

 

I don't buy the latest sparks saying it's too much testing though.   There are eight cables, the ring main being the longest at about 15m.  It would take 30 mins to test the resistance across all circuits before second fix. And perhaps 30 mins longer to run an NCD along the plasterboard to confirm that the routing is as I have said.   I'd happily pay for an hour extra of time.   

 

The other testing a sparks would need to do anyway after a second fix.    There are eight sockets, 7 down lighters, three switches, two immersions, a vmc and a tiny towel rail to connect.  22 "appliances".  Even at 15 mins an appliance that's less than a man-day's work.  Maybe the job is too small for an electrician to be interested in?  Although connecting up the new 16mm2 swa is probably a half day in itself to be fair.  

 

Hey ho...

 

 

[Mattg4321]

He just doesn’t want to do it. As a rule I won’t test/certify the work of third parties, other than via EICR (which isn’t a certificate, rather a report). 
 

I find the work is always not to my standards or liking, and even if on the surface it is, I don’t know what’s lurking hidden. 
 

Many people will though. Have a ring around 

[dpmiller]

why can't the original guy come back?

[jpadie]

23 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

He just doesn’t want to do it. As a rule I won’t test/certify the work of third parties, other than via EICR (which isn’t a certificate, rather a report). 
 

I find the work is always not to my standards or liking, and even if on the surface it is, I don’t know what’s lurking hidden. 
 

Many people will though. Have a ring around 

 

 

I was clear from the outset that this was a sign-off job.  He asked for the second fix as well to make it worth his while.  

 

 

[jpadie]

23 hours ago, dpmiller said:

why can't the original guy come back?

No idea.  He won't answer calls or texts.  Hasn't since a couple of weeks before Xmas.  No price agreed but this guy has done the electrics at this house for a decade now. 

[Mattg4321]

A lot of trades (most?) are terrible at organisation and communication. It drives me mad as I have to work alongside them and occasionally subcontract work to them. 
 

The upside is I often pick up good, well paying work that somebody else hasn’t shown up to/hasn’t bothered to price for etc etc. The customers are usually very grateful and will recommend me as somebody reliable. 
 

My point being that you need to find someone who actually wants to do the work. That’s probably easier said than done, but they are out there. 

[jpadie]

14 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

A lot of trades (most?) are terrible at organisation and communication. It drives me mad as I have to work alongside them and occasionally subcontract work to them. 
 

The upside is I often pick up good, well paying work that somebody else hasn’t shown up to/hasn’t bothered to price for etc etc. The customers are usually very grateful and will recommend me as somebody reliable. 
 

My point being that you need to find someone who actually wants to do the work. That’s probably easier said than done, but they are out there. 

 

i'm sure you are correct.  Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of time to search out the right person.  I've been using local community boards + fully explaining the circumstances.  I don't want more delays so have paid the BC fee.  the latest electrician has said (yesterday) that he will help with terminating the SWA which at least means I won't have to buy or rent an absurdly long hole saw to get through the masonry (it's a 16th century cottage so mostly timber, lathe and lime but the section to get through is solid lumps of stone, mudded together with lime.  I suspect that is why previous electricians across the century have gone through the window frame.