House with revoked PD rights - is it worth it?

[Luis Pal]

Hello chaps,

 

I have recently joined the forum and was wondering if you could help me out here. I have had an offer accepted for a freehold house where Bristol City Council is the Local Planning Authority.

 

After doing some research, it turns out that the house a substantial planning history. The House was originally semi-detached, however the developers who own it, built a two storey extension after obtaining planning permission and subsequently another planning permission was granted to "Proposed conversion of two storey side extension into a 2 bedroom house and erection of front porch".

 

In reading the last application, I have come across the following condition:

 

 

This effectively revokes Permitted Development rights and every extension and addition to the roof would need to go through the formal planning process.

 

Pic showing original semi-detached house I intend to buy:

 

Current picture showing newly constructed 2 bed house (left) + house I intend to buy (right)

 

 

Plan showing new 2 bed house, house I intend to buy and desired 1 story extension

 

 

I have a number of questions here:

 

1. Is it worth pursuing the purchase although it is likely that the property doesn´t have permitted development rights and will be virtually impossible to eliminate the condition? If so, what % of the agreed price would be reasonable to ask the buyer to drop?
2. Given that the condition of no further extensions has been imposed due to the construction of the extension and separation into two dwellings. If I decided to purchase the house, would I be likely to get approval to build a 1 story extension for the kitchen and living room (marked red on the plan under House I intend to buy)?
3. Are there any other things that I should consider / worry about?

 

Many thanks in advance. Please let me know if you would like further info / something is not clearl.

 

L

 

 

[Luis Pal]

*Please disregard last plan

**Forgot to add another question sorry. 4. Will the house be difficult to sell in the future due to no PD rights?

Edited February 6 by Luis Pal

[Alan Ambrose]

I have a place with PD rights removed. I put in an application and now an appeal to have them reinstated. I’ll let you know the outcome in 9 months . I’m fairly thorough - but the lack of PD rights wasn’t a factor when I bought it - I can’t remember whether I was aware and disregarded or just not aware. So, to answer your last question, I think that most potential buyers won’t notice. Also, I don’t think that reinstating PD rights is ‘impossible’ but just that, most people will opt to put in a planning application for what would otherwise be covered by PD rather than wait out an appeal to remove PD restrictions and then build under PD.

I can’t quite figure out your drawings - the first looks like an old drawing submitted for the porch with your annotations on it? Is the second an even older drawing proposing the original 2-storey extension?

 

To answer you other questions - your LPA is giving a fairly firm indication that any other extensions will not be easily allowed. Not impossible, but not that likely. Consequently, value the house assuming you won’t get planning for an extension. Not that you shouldn’t try, just that you shouldn’t pay for the privilege of trying.

[gravelrash]

Im not sure the council planning have written that condition correctly. Removal of PD rights is usually very specific as to which part of the Town and country planning GPDO to which it is referring. A appeal inspector would soon remove a condition that is in appropriate.  Regarding the reduction of house value...it is what it is. If you want it then buy it but do not expect the seller to reduce it because of PD  issue.   

[Luis Pal]

2 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

I have a place with PD rights removed. I put in an application and now an appeal to have them reinstated. I’ll let you know the outcome in 9 months . I’m fairly thorough - but the lack of PD rights wasn’t a factor when I bought it - I can’t remember whether I was aware and disregarded or just not aware. So, to answer your last question, I think that most potential buyers won’t notice. Also, I don’t think that reinstating PD rights is ‘impossible’ but just that, most people will opt to put in a planning application for what would otherwise be covered by PD rather than wait out an appeal to remove PD restrictions and then build under PD.

I can’t quite figure out your drawings - the first looks like an old drawing submitted for the porch with your annotations on it? Is the second an even older drawing proposing the original 2-storey extension?

 

To answer you other questions - your LPA is giving a fairly firm indication that any other extensions will not be easily allowed. Not impossible, but not that likely. Consequently, value the house assuming you won’t get planning for an extension. Not that you shouldn’t try, just that you shouldn’t pay for the privilege of trying.

Thanks Alan,

 

Re drawings, you got it right. I was drafting the post and for some reason that last drawing at the bottom slipped through...

 

I agree with you that it is probably safe to assume that the LPA won't approve any further extensions and make the decision on the house based on that.

 

Btw, good luck on getting PD rights reinstated. I don't know about your property but on this one it seems that there isn't a great case to make in order to have them reinstated...

 

L

[kandgmitchell]

I'd be intrigued to see the wording of the original approval for the formation of the new dwelling. The condition would apply to that development and thus may possibly apply only to the new dwelling and not the host dwelling. You could also look to see whether the city council has amenity space requirements for dwellings in it's planning policies or supplementary planning guidance. Looking at your sketch it can surely only be lack of amenity space left for the original dwelling that'll be an issue for the planners in respect of your proposed extension.

[Luis Pal]

55 minutes ago, kandgmitchell said:

I'd be intrigued to see the wording of the original approval for the formation of the new dwelling. The condition would apply to that development and thus may possibly apply only to the new dwelling and not the host dwelling. You could also look to see whether the city council has amenity space requirements for dwellings in it's planning policies or supplementary planning guidance. Looking at your sketch it can surely only be lack of amenity space left for the original dwelling that'll be an issue for the planners in respect of your proposed extension.

The condition applies to both dwellings. This has been confirmed by the owner. 

 

The LPA planning policy re extensions: House extensions and alterations will be permitted provided they would not cause unacceptable harm to the amenities of neighbouring occupiers.

 

Documents are here: https://pa.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=NBS3KCDN06900

 

L

[DevilDamo]

Why do you think the seller would accept a reduced offer because of the withdrawal of PD rights? Just because there are no PD rights, doesn’t mean you cannot extend. It just means you require Planning. And plus… you already know the Planning history prior to putting in an offer. It may be a slightly different story if this only came to light nearer the time of completing the sale.

[kandgmitchell]

Well you aren't going to affect the new house as you would not project beyond it's rear wall. As to the other side, why would this be any different to a situation where the new house had never been built.

[torre]

This is the largest purchase you'll make so you need to consider the worst case - if you couldn't extend then is the house still suitable for you? And would you still be happy with your offer price?

 

How about you or the owner puts in a planning application and you make your offer conditional on it's approval? In about 8 weeks, as the rest of the sale process continues, you'll have certainty.

 

A house you definitely can't extend is clearly worth less. It's unlikely you'll get the condition removed, the extension looks reasonable to me but planners may feel differently.

[DevilDamo]

13 hours ago, torre said:

A house you definitely can't extend is clearly worth less.

Eh!?! 😳

[torre]

29 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

Eh!?!

 

If Luis applies to extend, before purchasing, and it's turned down, the house would then be worth less to them as they won't be able to get the living space they want.

 

I'm suggesting a way of getting certainty about a planned extension before finalising the purchase

[Alan Ambrose]

Call me cynical, but the original developers outwitted the planners by building first a big extension and then had it approved for split off to separate dwelling. I’m sure they made out handsomely. The PD restriction was possibly an LPA emotional response to being outsmarted. It’s not supposed to work like that, of course. If you buy that logic however, then the LPA will fight to stop a further extension to avoid any more embarrassment.

 

i wonder whether you have time to submit a pre-app for an extension? From an architectural viewpoint, your potential extension actually seems very sensible as otherwise the back of ‘your’ house is a bit ‘shaded’. Hard to tell how much as I can’t see an indication of compass orientation on the drawings.

[DevilDamo]

19 hours ago, torre said:

 

If Luis applies to extend, before purchasing, and it's turned down, the house would then be worth less to them as they won't be able to get the living space they want.

 

I'm suggesting a way of getting certainty about a planned extension before finalising the purchase

They they would make an offer subject to Planning.

 

I initially read your post as “any” house that cannot or can no longer be extended is worthless. That obviously isn’t the case.