Roger440 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, GaryChaplin said: As far as I understand, this is what NOT to do. With conventional boilers you can do this, but heat pumps just will not be efficient if oversized. They need to be working quite hard to get optimum perfomance. It would appear that many authorised installers are just adding the grant to their profit margin! First quote includes £5600 for the install! Well of course they do. Its free money from government. Many of said companies are set up with that sole purpose, and will disappear the minute grants are switched off. Its not like there isnt any previous history with this sort of thing.................................................................. My facebook feed is flooded with such stuff, especially being in wales where the grants are up to £45k for rural properties. I checked a few of the companies at companies house. None were more than 2 years old. Doesnt take a degree in rocket science to work out whats going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Valley Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 We have a well insulated 160 sq m house with an Ecodan 8.5kW ASHP. Cost was £10000 less the then £5000 govt grant for the supply and fit of the heat pump a 210 litre hot water tank, buffer tank plus all the associated pipework towards the manifolds. This was fitted in Sept 2022. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I think this thread highlights well the importance of homework - including asking questions that we think may be naive here. It also highlights the importance of our ASHP market developing, and the industry continuing to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Roger440 said: 1 hour ago, GaryChaplin said: It would appear that many authorised installers are just adding the grant to their profit margin! First quote includes £5600 for the install! Well of course they do. Its free money from government. Many of said companies are set up with that sole purpose, and will disappear the minute grants are switched off. Its not like there isnt any previous history with this sort of thing.................................................................. The only thing that continues to surprise me is how everyone on here continues to be surprised by this The primary goal of the govt subsidies, for ASHP like PV before it, is to stimulate an industry of installers, and to make it worth the effort of getting the training and setup businesses in this space. That is very clearly an invitation from governments for the installers to take a lion share of the subsidy. This is just not my interpretation, a friend is a senior civil servant in the dept of energy (or whatever it's called now) and stated it to me. Making it cheap to install is pointless if there's no one trained up to install, or maintain them long term. Yes the whole things leaves self builders/self installers hung out to dry, which stinks, but we're a super tiny fraction of the big picture and not the intended market for it. I don't like it any more than you do, but there's little point getting het up about it as however unhappy it makes you, it's not going to change. Obviously the long term risk of this is industry collapse when the subsides are removed. Hopefully they learnt from PV and can taper the subsidy over a longer period on a well published timeline. And hopefully pigs can fly Edited January 3 by joth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryChaplin Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said: it might be worth checking the U-Values as 2.5 total seems a bit low. Thanks Alan, it is low, which is what I was hoping. Walls and roof are in the region of 0.1 W/m²K, with triple glazing throughout I'm hoping it will heat itself! We are having a woodburner, but am omitting that as don't always want to have to light it, albeit having an unlimited source of free oak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryChaplin Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I think this thread highlights well the importance of homework - including asking questions that we think may be naive here. Well said. I should imagine many are on this resource for basic information and have no intention of retaining the knowledge, and, for example, becoming a heating engineer. It's very easy for knowledgeable people to be condescending, which will only deter further questions. I probably do that all the time in my trade without realising it. Edited January 3 by GaryChaplin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, GaryChaplin said: it is low, which is what I was hoping. Walls and roof are in the region of 0.1 W/m²K, with triple glazing throughout I designed and built my PH in East Kent, with walls, roof and floor 0.1 W/m2K, triple glazing and airtightness 0.47ACH. We heated the whole house to 23C with just electric towel rails in the three bathrooms, supplimented with warm air from the MVHR with built in EASHP. It would have been massive overkill to have installed any sort of conventional CH. I think a wood burning stove would produce too much localised heat in that sort of house. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger440 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, joth said: The only thing that continues to surprise me is how everyone on here continues to be surprised by this The primary goal of the govt subsidies, for ASHP like PV before it, is to stimulate an industry of installers, and to make it worth the effort of getting the training and setup businesses in this space. That is very clearly an invitation from governments for the installers to take a lion share of the subsidy. This is just not my interpretation, a friend is a senior civil servant in the dept of energy (or whatever it's called now) and stated it to me. Making it cheap to install is pointless if there's no one trained up to install, or maintain them long term. Yes the whole things leaves self builders/self installers hung out to dry, which stinks, but we're a super tiny fraction of the big picture and not the intended market for it. I don't like it any more than you do, but there's little point getting het up about it as however unhappy it makes you, it's not going to change. Obviously the long term risk of this is industry collapse when the subsides are removed. Hopefully they learnt from PV and can taper the subsidy over a longer period on a well published timeline. And hopefully pigs can fly Im very aware change isnt going to happen. Apart from when a new minister has another whim, and knocks the subsidy on the head to funnel it to some other wheeze. Then the inevitable happens and all the installers disappear. Because, despite what you hope for, we all know thats what will actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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