Paintballing & planning implications

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, waylanderUK said:

60k is way over the odds for land he can’t use.

Depends on location.

 

scrubby agricultural land is £10/ acre but increases a lot if someone wants it other than for sheep.

There is a market for land to plant trees on (to show you care and buy carbon credits)

 

Woodland that used to be sold as a cash sink for tax avoidance is now sold as a bit of heritage to nurture (and show on the sustainability page of the website.

 

You have 1 chance to buy it, thinks the owner. 

 

[Bozza]

Ok so farmer (A) sells this strip of land to random new owner (B) on condition he allows through farm access to (A), presumably for very little money.

 

Do you know why (B) bought a random bit of land that presumably has very little value or use to it.  Doesn’t make any sense for B to buy it. Or indeed A to sell it. It would make sense for A to have sold it you who wouldn’t do anything with it.  

 

Did you ever try to buy the land from (A) at market value when it was for sale.

 

So what happens next how on earth do you end up speaking with (B) about buying it off him that ends up him wanting £60k & resulting in the paint balling threat.  Did he just randomly pitch up one day and offer to sell you land he’s just bought.  
 

I think it would be helpful to understand the full story to allow us to provide you with the best possible advice. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Bozza

[Temp]

I think the site is probably too small.  50*200m is about 2.5 acres. 

 

https://www.startupdonut.co.uk/start-up-business-ideas/types-of-business/how-to-start-up-a-paintball-centre

 

Quote

Your paintball site is likely to be situated on a fairly large piece of land. Typical sizes range from around 20 acres to as large as 100 acres. 

 

Although I did Google up some at 12 acres.

 

Google found code of practice from 2016 here mentions rights of way.

 

https://ukpsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Code-of-Practice-For-Paintball-Site-Operators.pdf

 

You could consider asking a planning consultant for a quote to do a quick look at the site and comment verbally on the chances of someone getting PP for paintballing. A written report would only be worth getting if an application was submitted.

 

On 15/12/2023 at 15:23, waylanderUK said:

 

They wear masks to do paintball though ive heard? Our house borders directly onto the land and I won't be wearing a mask. Neither will the farmer driving through in his old tractor to get to his fields...?

 

I suppose the noise was the least of my issues really - being in the countryside there are noisier things going on. I suppose it's also the privacy aspect - the field looks directly into our house/lgardens and has been historically unused.

 

@Temp Yeah ive had a read around but havent found anything quite like our case i.e. the size, proximity to other houses. I did find references to rights of way through a paintball fields being a big no-no somewhere. Which makes sense.

 

Cheers

 

 

The reason I suggested it was unlikely to be dangerous is because if granted permission there would likely be a planning condition attached intended to prevent paint balls leaving the site. That might be by erecting netting. If paint balls were to enter your garden on a regular basis i suspect that would put them in breach of their planning permission or amount to a statutory nuisance.  

 

Loss of privacy can be an issue that prevents planning being granted but again it might be addressed by the paintball co erecting fencing. I'm not trying to defend paintballing next to your house, just point out how the paint ball co might try and overcome your perfectly understandable objections. 

 

 

[waylanderUK]

5 hours ago, Bozza said:

Ok so farmer (A) sells this strip of land to random new owner (B) on condition he allows through farm access to (A), presumably for very little money.

 

Do you know why (B) bought a random bit of land that presumably has very little value or use to it.  Doesn’t make any sense for B to buy it. Or indeed A to sell it. It would make sense for A to have sold it you who wouldn’t do anything with it.  

 

Did you ever try to buy the land from (A) at market value when it was for sale.

 

So what happens next how on earth do you end up speaking with (B) about buying it off him that ends up him wanting £60k & resulting in the paint balling threat.  Did he just randomly pitch up one day and offer to sell you land he’s just bought.  
 

I think it would be helpful to understand the full story to allow us to provide you with the best possible advice. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

He was notified of our planning application and came offering the land (out in the six we are all familiar with each other)! Which is another reason we think the paint balling threat is phoney - presumably he thinks were loaded now and 65k is nothing to us!

 

This guy was a farmer himself and has always owned the land - he is gradually selling off his assets hence writing into a tenet for this little parcel that there must always be access for the farmer though it to the other field he sold to the farmer. Presumably the other farmer insisted on it as there's no other access to the other field otherwise.

 

The land has never been for sale previously.

[waylanderUK]

5 hours ago, Temp said:

I think the site is probably too small.  50*200m is about 2.5 acres. 

 

https://www.startupdonut.co.uk/start-up-business-ideas/types-of-business/how-to-start-up-a-paintball-centre

 

 

Although I did Google up some at 12 acres.

 

Google found code of practice from 2016 here mentions rights of way.

 

https://ukpsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Code-of-Practice-For-Paintball-Site-Operators.pdf

 

You could consider asking a planning consultant for a quote to do a quick look at the site and comment verbally on the chances of someone getting PP for paintballing. A written report would only be worth getting if an application was submitted.

 

 

The reason I suggested it was unlikely to be dangerous is because if granted permission there would likely be a planning condition attached intended to prevent paint balls leaving the site. That might be by erecting netting. If paint balls were to enter your garden on a regular basis i suspect that would put them in breach of their planning permission or amount to a statutory nuisance.  

 

Loss of privacy can be an issue that prevents planning being granted but again it might be addressed by the paintball co erecting fencing. I'm not trying to defend paintballing next to your house, just point out how the paint ball co might try and overcome your perfectly understandable objections. 

 

 

Yeah - the site is around 4 acres - by dimensions were very rough. But as you say its very small for such an application.

 

Yes ive also heard of the council requiring fences to be erected - which is ok - but they would then need to interfere with the very dense "ancient woodland" to that I suspect (posts/holes etc).

 

I also spoke to our planning consultant about it - he didn't know enough about paint balling specifically to offer a very definite appraisal but did think it was unlikely given the right of way/proximity to our houses .

 

In my head by the time we get planning through (about a year) hopefully they will have applied for change of use and we have objected and its all sorted out... BUT... there's a chance we're gonna be building with this unknown hanging over our heads. We may just decide to "build to sell" rather than building our forever home if not resolved. It's an important decision for us. Thanks for your advice!

[George]

13 hours ago, waylanderUK said:

The land is approx 150m alongside ours. Essentially the owner of the land wants 65k for it and has told us he will sell it to paintballers if we don’t buy it. £65k for 4 acres doesn’t compute.  
 

both the existing and new properties literally back straight into the woodland. 

I'm afraid that's about the going rate at the moment. The nominal agricultural value (£8k to £12k an acre) only applies for large tracts and should be considered as the absolute minimum.

 

£16k for land immediately adjacent is quite a bargain. I've seen some go for £20k/acre for scrubby woodland.

 

Paintballing doesn't sound the worst development but on a constrained site might cause issues. But they'll pack up when it gets dark and doesn't cause loads of traffic

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

45 minutes ago, waylanderUK said:

...

I also spoke to our planning consultant about it - he didn't know enough about paint balling specifically to offer a very definite appraisal but did think it was unlikely given the right of way/proximity to our houses .

...

 

Excellent.   You can relax now.

[saveasteading]

It would need provision for parking, with safe access.

All seems unlikely.

Ound these parts ancient woodland has to maintained even coppicing land, can only be used for that purpose.

Buy the land if you want it. Don't worry about paintballing.

[Bozza]

Let me tell you why I think the paintball thing is unlikely.    
 

if I was wanting to start up a paintballing business I’d want a location that allowed players, ideally lots of them, to play various games that allowed competitors to run around all over a big bit of land.  A narrow strip of land would mean that teams couldn’t out flank each other it would just be two teams firing at each other from each end of a narrow strip.   Paintballs, especially with wind, can travel quite a distance.  A “defending” team of paintballers would just have to locate in a central part of the strip and an attacking team wouldn’t be able to advance.   It would be very stagnant and boring stalemate.

 

I’m fairly sure that any planning conditions would require paintballs not to land on yours as a minimum measure.  As such that 50m strip would reduced to almost nothing as paintballs can travel quite a distance with wind.  Mitigation ? Lots of expensive high planting / fencing? 

 

Have a look at nearby paintball activity companies.  See what they offer v what that land could offer.  I’m pretty sure they will have better land so how could it be commercially viable, especially with an immediate a close neighbour who would understanding object to it.  Why would someone want to paintball on a thin bit of land when other companies offer a better experience.  How close is the nearest paintball centre.  How close are you to areas of population.   Would there be lots of parking, places to put in storage facilities, toilets, catering.  They wouldn’t want to risk that with a neighbour next door complaining.

 

I think the seller is at it and sounds like he’s being an d£&k.   Offering to sell it to a paint balling company is a very different thing to a company seeing it as commercially viable land for that activity and buying it.

 

If he makes that comment again I’d say good, I’ve always fancied taking up paintballing.  Then go and do your research on bats, squirrels and various protected wildlife.  You can put in measures to encourage habitation and report / record activity.  Bats etc have rights you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

Having done a fair bit of paint balling with my son the bigger the space the worse and less interesting the game. They tend to drag on for ages which is no fun if you get shot early. The best games are the ones where they’ve created playing area with buildings and obstacles in a relatively small area. These games tend to have a faster turnover. 

[waylanderUK]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

Having done a fair bit of paint balling with my son the bigger the space the worse and less interesting the game. They tend to drag on for ages which is no fun if you get shot early. The best games are the ones where they’ve created playing area with buildings and obstacles in a relatively small area. These games tend to have a faster turnover. 

 

There deffo won't be any buildings being built on the ancient woodland

 

Without that its not gonna be any good id have thought - just a small bit of plain land full of dense trees.

[waylanderUK]

2 hours ago, Bozza said:

Let me tell you why I think the paintball thing is unlikely.    
 

if I was wanting to start up a paintballing business I’d want a location that allowed players, ideally lots of them, to play various games that allowed competitors to run around all over a big bit of land.  A narrow strip of land would mean that teams couldn’t out flank each other it would just be two teams firing at each other from each end of a narrow strip.   Paintballs, especially with wind, can travel quite a distance.  A “defending” team of paintballers would just have to locate in a central part of the strip and an attacking team wouldn’t be able to advance.   It would be very stagnant and boring stalemate.

 

I’m fairly sure that any planning conditions would require paintballs not to land on yours as a minimum measure.  As such that 50m strip would reduced to almost nothing as paintballs can travel quite a distance with wind.  Mitigation ? Lots of expensive high planting / fencing? 

 

Have a look at nearby paintball activity companies.  See what they offer v what that land could offer.  I’m pretty sure they will have better land so how could it be commercially viable, especially with an immediate a close neighbour who would understanding object to it.  Why would someone want to paintball on a thin bit of land when other companies offer a better experience.  How close is the nearest paintball centre.  How close are you to areas of population.   Would there be lots of parking, places to put in storage facilities, toilets, catering.  They wouldn’t want to risk that with a neighbour next door complaining.

 

I think the seller is at it and sounds like he’s being an d£&k.   Offering to sell it to a paint balling company is a very different thing to a company seeing it as commercially viable land for that activity and buying it.

 

If he makes that comment again I’d say good, I’ve always fancied taking up paintballing.  Then go and do your research on bats, squirrels and various protected wildlife.  You can put in measures to encourage habitation and report / record activity.  Bats etc have rights you know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah these echo my thoughts exactly. We all feel he's just trying it on with us... 

 

And if they try paint balling on the sly I will report them to the planners and use my evidence. I'm going up there to video it this weekend to ensure that any damage to the site from their activities can be demonstrated.

[ToughButterCup]

Bridge-cross-before-you-need- to?