So how sharp do you sharpen your chisels?

[TerryE]

Jan thinks that I am a bit anal about keeping my chisels and hand plane sharp, because I like to keep a good edge on my tools, and I use a two sided oil stone for this ( and have recently bought a two-sided diamond "stone"), but I've realised that there are leagues of anality when it comes tool sharpening and leaving aside the Japanese carpenters, the purist hand tool workers seem to think a chisel is only truly sharp if the back has been polished to a flat mirror surface up to say 1,600 grit on a strop and the front likewise -- surgeon's scalpel sharp. At this sharpness you can hand cut cross grain easily.

My rough side of my oil stone definitely has a slight bow on it, cause by many years of sharpening without reflattening.  Oops.

I do notice the difference if I take my hand plane up to 1000 grit sharpness,  However, all I am doing here is tidying router-cut hinges etc. What would others recommend as a sensible balance between workaday and perfectionist sharpness?  Any special tips / preferences?

[Construction Channel]

If you can't shave with it you shouldn't be using it. I have the advantage of a wet wheel with an attached leather wheel. But in honesty I don't use it much as it is in the workshop. I would normally give them say 5 mins on a fine diamond stone and then a good 30-40 strokes on a strop with a bit of rouge on it. Obviously that is unless it has hit a nail. Then it goes back to the workshop and gets re honed properly. 

[Guest Alphonsox]

I am soon to be taking an interest in this subject. I probably need some new chisels to start with as my current set have been used to open and stir paint tins, as stand in screw drivers etc. Any recommendations ?

Is a honing guide a worthwhile purchase for a beginner ?

My brother pointed me at this set of sharpening stones - any good ?

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworking-hand-tools-sharpening-tools-japanese-water-stones-waterstone-sharpening-set-of-3+dk6710

 

[Construction Channel]

I'm still using the set of irwin marples i brought as an apprentice, I think the set was on offer for about £50 at the time, I have recently brought a replacement set for about £70 but it did come with a free 2" chisel  (they haven't been used yet)

 

honing guide probably wouldn't be a bad idea for a beginner, only issue is they tend to wear a track in the stones so you need to continuously make sure you move it about a bit,

 

that link just cost me nearly £200 and the set was in the final basket

[Guest Alphonsox]

11 minutes ago, Construction Channel said:

Ithat link just cost me nearly £200 and the set was in the final basket

You're welcome

[TerryE]

@Alphonsox Have a browse around the Youtube videos on sharpening chisels.  The general advice is that a pretty cheap set of chisels properly sharpened is preferable to a set of expensive chisels that hasn't been properly sharpened. My inclination now is to do what Ed suggests: stick with a decent say 300/600 or 300/900 dual sided diamond block and a strop and 2000 grit paste.

BTW the unanimous advice seems to be that you need to keep your stone flat to a few thou, and even if you get a set of Japanese wet stones, you will still need a diamond block or a sheet of glass and a course paste  to do this, but I suspect that we will get a few more opinions correcting my naivety before  we're done

And the Rutlands site seems a find.  Thanks

[Construction Channel]

I agree, I wouldn't recommend anyone go out any buy a set of Lee Nielsons because they are better, but I similarly wouldn't recommend anyone to just go for faithful because you can put an edge on anything, 

The difference in price comes from the quality of the steel, and more importantly how much of the tip has been tempered and how well it was done, 

I will personally recommend the marples set, as they have done me proud, there will obviously be a lot of alternatives but I just can't comment on them

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Irwin-Marples-8pc-Piece-Split-Proof-Wood-Chisel-Set-6mm-to-50mm-in-Wooden-Case-/272247156741?hash=item3f6331f005:g:~JwAAOSwdWBXPIyf

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

13 hours ago, TerryE said:

[...]

My rough side of my oil stone definitely has a slight bow on it, cause by many years of sharpening without reflattening.  Oops.

[...]

Grind that flat with a rougher stone. Someone explained to me years ago that a set of soft pencil marks (cross-hatches) on the stone to be flattened is a big help in working out which bits of the stone need some work. And sometimes less work needs to be done than you think.

Sharpening is my equivalent of the Army's bulling boots, and one Saturday morning in four I sharpen everything. More often if something's annoyed me. Soothing, satisfying, useful.

[TerryE]

It's my roughest stone, but it's fairly easy to do with a diamond stone or valve grinding paste and sheet of glass.  The trick realising that you should be doing this in the first place!

[TerryE]

Also another useful tip is that a decent honing compound on MDF will give a fine  edge. No need for a leather strop.

[ToughButterCup]

On 6/11/2016 at 14:40, TerryE said:

[...] a decent honing compound on MDF will give a fine  edge. [...]

Ahhhh! Thanks!

Decent honing compound....? Like (say) valve grinding paste, or toothpaste, or ... ideas?

 

[TerryE]

I started to explain the physics of sharpening to Janet, but she cut me off after about 30 seconds with " I am really getting worried about you; you're becoming totally obsessed with this" and walked off.

A truly sharp edge is formed by two mirror-like surfaces meeting at a V so that the edge isn't too cratered at a µm scale as "craters" are bowl-shaped regions of the edge that are blunt and which will crush the lignin chains rather than part them.  But of course we can't obtain a truly flat surface in practice.  Polishing involves moving a flat surface and a grit which is harder than steel against the steel, with a cascade of descending particle sizes of particles that are harder than steel, so a rough 120 grit diamond stone has diamond grains that have a mean diameter of 125µm. A 1000 grit wetstone has a mean diameter of nearer 15µm (remembering that the pit size / abrasive area effectively goes as the square but the volume removed as the cube ).  So it takes less polishing as you go down the scale, so long as you don't make too big a jump between grit sizes.  Stones can take you down to 1500 grit unless you are willing to pay a lot for a quality Japanese wetstone. 

It's a lot easier at this level to use a soft carrier surface (e.g. leather or MDF) and a fine grit -- a honing compound.  A Cr2O3-based grit is down to the 1-3 µm size, and is normally sold as a powder or in a wax binder. (½µm is getting to optically flat dimensions).  There are loads available on eBay, and specialist suppliers in the £5-£20 range.  I don't have enough practical experience to recommend one as best value.  Over to Ed @Construction Channel  I think

The WP article on sandpaper gives good background reading.

[Construction Channel]

Couldn't comment on actual brands of paste. As I'm still using the unbranded stuff that came with my wet wheel. The Japanese stones mentioned earlier in the thread came yesterday so I'll give them a go and let you know how I get on. 

[SteamyTea]

I use a Stanley knife with 1992 blades, an angle grinder, drill and jigsaw.

I worked in a model shop for a few years, they all hated me as I was not 'one of them' and I got paid more as my productivity was higher.

Edited June 15, 2016 by SteamyTea

[PeterW]

I use Paul Sellers technique as it seems to work for me !

And he even advocates the Aldi chisel set if you don't have a lot of money - I've got a cheap set of diamond plates and Irwin Jack chisels as I'm more Ikea than Chippendale furniture...