Planning passed.......next stages

[Amateur bob]

2 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A hardcore crop? 

ive a field with a rockhead i dug out stone and used it as a shed base a few years ago i was thinking i could use it round the plot too?

[saveasteading]

14 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

was thinking i could use it round the plot too?

Probably but don't publicise it or you might need a quarry licence. 

[Kelvin]

4 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

yes ive heard these turnkey prices can be a bit out of hand is there much room for negotiation? yes ill likely sort out services over the winter while im waiting i dont think ill bother with a phone line though i never use one these days

 

regarding site insurance how soon before building commences should i get this in place?

 

thanks

You can have it ready to go the day you start you just tell the insurer your commencement date. I did mine from the day before. 

[Kelvin]

46 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

ah right i didnt know the timber frame company would give me a scaffolding plan thats good to know, roughly if i was to order a timber frame kit in say may time once ive building warrant and mortgage sorted out how long can one reasonably expect until the kit could be on site? 4-6 months?

 

im ok for hardcore im planning to dig some out a field when the weather dries up so i can put plenty round the site to keep it clean

 

thanks

 

 

They all vary but we were 13 weeks from final  off until it was delivered. To some extent this was driven by the windows as we got those from the kit supplier. Bear in mind that most kit suppliers want stage payments up front. In our case our kit supplier also did the planning and warrant application so the first payment (10%) was due just prior to warrant application, then the next payment once the warrant was granted, then on window order, then just prior to delivery. I don’t know if you have a short list of kit suppliers yet, if so phone them and ask what their build/supply/erect schedule is. There’s some timing you need to align if you are taking care of dealing with the groundswork. I allowed a month contingency between groundswork finishing and timber kit arriving and we used three weeks of it. 
 

There are a few threads in here about timber kits and the financial exposure they can open you up to. Worth reading. We didn’t do ours with a mortgage so it was our money rather than the banks. If doing it again I’d probably do stick build. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Kelvin

[Kelvin]

44 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

ah right the cutting and filling would be done with a digger? we did that once with the subsoil when building a shed, thats actually a reasonable price if it includes sewerage treatment etc did you go for a klargester?

Digger yes, done by a skilled digger operator. I couldn’t have done it. 
 

No Klagester. Architects always seem to specify those. A Graf One2Clean. Search the forum as there’s a lot of info on treatment plants. The general consensus is you don’t want anything that’s spinning mechanically inside the tank. These can and do fail and it’s someone’s job (yours probably) to get down and dirty. Many on here go for the aerobic kind that bubbles oxygen through the effluent in various stages and bacteria works its magic. 
 

Clearly Klargester Biodiscs work fine as folk use them successfully enough. 

[MR10]

6 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

yes i do plan on using an ashp will the grant need to be applied for well in advance? yes true i could email a few companies my planning drawings and see if they can give rough indications for each stage?

 

one thing im unsure of is at what stage should i contact the self build lenders? i was going to use build store but last time we spoke they said they needed planning passed and details, they would likely need the warranty passed and this info too? as this holds me up a bit for other things i.e deposit on TF or applying for ASHP grants etc until i actually know for sure the build is feasable

 

ok yes ill have a good study of whats in this warranty pack before submitting

 

thanks

You don't need to apply for the grant too long in advance, just be mindful that once the grant and/or loan is offered you'll have 9 months to have the systems installed and to claim the funds. It's probably better giving them a call at some point as they're quite helpful.

There's no telling how long these grants will be available for, so I would say get all you can while you can (fill your boots).

You get £7.5k grant for ashp (or £9k if rural), so free money. £5k loan for solar with £1.25k of that as grant, same for batteries (more free money up to £2.5k). The loan is interest free and repayment term could be up to 10 years.

 

If you're emailing TF companies for quotes, probably call first, discuss your needs, get a point of contact you can follow up with so you don't fall through the cracks. 

 

Regarding scaffolding, ours was up before the kit arrived so it can be done both ways.

We paid a small deposit when we placed the kit order with a large chunk only paid 3 weeks prior to kit arriving on site, so teeth grinding over the financial exposure was limited. Even got to go see the kit been made prior to delivery.

 

I've attached a chart from the TF supplier we used showing payment schedule etc. as an example.

 

Can't help with self build lending queries I'm afraid.

Scotframe Customer Journey Map - Scotland.pdf

[Kelvin]

Getting through to Home Energy Scotland is a complete nightmare right now and they don’t respond to emails. 

[MR10]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

Getting through to Home Energy Scotland is a complete nightmare right now and they don’t respond to emails. 

I've always got through to them on the phone no bother, spoke to them last week too, luck of the draw I suppose.

Edited October 23, 2023 by MR10
Typo

[MR10]

@Amateur bob forgot to mention, if you have pre-commencement planning conditions, now is the time to crack on with those and get them discharged.

[AliG]

SW guidance on surface water drainage.

 

They want you to show that option 1- Use the water and then option 2 - Soakaway don't work before you can go to option 3 drain to a watercourse.

 

Option 1 is usually a non starter as no one needs tat much water, so you can just state that. You will need to do a percolation test to see if option 2 is feasible.

 

TBF what they really don't want is a connection to the sewer network, they may not be too fussed between option 2 and option 3 but I don't have any experience of this They could just dogmatically stick to the policy.

 

https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/media/ScottishWater/Document-Hub/Business-and-Developers/Connecting-to-our-network/All-connections-information/190718SurfaceWaterGuidanceDoc8ppA4PagesHiRes.pdf

[Amateur bob]

15 hours ago, Kelvin said:

They all vary but we were 13 weeks from final  off until it was delivered. To some extent this was driven by the windows as we got those from the kit supplier. Bear in mind that most kit suppliers want stage payments up front. In our case our kit supplier also did the planning and warrant application so the first payment (10%) was due just prior to warrant application, then the next payment once the warrant was granted, then on window order, then just prior to delivery. I don’t know if you have a short list of kit suppliers yet, if so phone them and ask what their build/supply/erect schedule is. There’s some timing you need to align if you are taking care of dealing with the groundswork. I allowed a month contingency between groundswork finishing and timber kit arriving and we used three weeks of it. 
 

There are a few threads in here about timber kits and the financial exposure they can open you up to. Worth reading. We didn’t do ours with a mortgage so it was our money rather than the banks. If doing it again I’d probably do stick build. 

ah right i see, yes ill aim to allow a month between groundswork finishing then and kit arrival the grounds work will likely need a few weeks to set and harden up anyway, ok thats not as bad if its paid in stages though less risky than paying a huge chunk up front, why would you do stick build instead out of interest? purely from a cost point of view?

[Amateur bob]

14 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Digger yes, done by a skilled digger operator. I couldn’t have done it. 
 

No Klagester. Architects always seem to specify those. A Graf One2Clean. Search the forum as there’s a lot of info on treatment plants. The general consensus is you don’t want anything that’s spinning mechanically inside the tank. These can and do fail and it’s someone’s job (yours probably) to get down and dirty. Many on here go for the aerobic kind that bubbles oxygen through the effluent in various stages and bacteria works its magic. 
 

Clearly Klargester Biodiscs work fine as folk use them successfully enough. 

yes ive heard that about the klargester although im lead to believe its one of the best for reducing phosphate emissions which was one of the conditions of my planning, ive not only to install a biodisk at my own site but also to upgrade an existing septic tank in the area for someone else so that the net effect from my house on local phosphate levels is negative, this has to be done before i can start my own build

[Amateur bob]

12 hours ago, MR10 said:

You don't need to apply for the grant too long in advance, just be mindful that once the grant and/or loan is offered you'll have 9 months to have the systems installed and to claim the funds. It's probably better giving them a call at some point as they're quite helpful.

There's no telling how long these grants will be available for, so I would say get all you can while you can (fill your boots).

You get £7.5k grant for ashp (or £9k if rural), so free money. £5k loan for solar with £1.25k of that as grant, same for batteries (more free money up to £2.5k). The loan is interest free and repayment term could be up to 10 years.

 

If you're emailing TF companies for quotes, probably call first, discuss your needs, get a point of contact you can follow up with so you don't fall through the cracks. 

 

Regarding scaffolding, ours was up before the kit arrived so it can be done both ways.

We paid a small deposit when we placed the kit order with a large chunk only paid 3 weeks prior to kit arriving on site, so teeth grinding over the financial exposure was limited. Even got to go see the kit been made prior to delivery.

 

I've attached a chart from the TF supplier we used showing payment schedule etc. as an example.

 

Can't help with self build lending queries I'm afraid.

Scotframe Customer Journey Map - Scotland.pdf 337.66 kB · 0 downloads

ah right i better wait until i have other things in place then before applying  for the grant then, ah i see youve used scotframe i would consider them for the fact they seem to include a lot more in their package than other suppliers, how did you get on with them? were they ok on price overall compared to others?

 

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

SW guidance on surface water drainage.

 

They want you to show that option 1- Use the water and then option 2 - Soakaway don't work before you can go to option 3 drain to a watercourse.

 

Option 1 is usually a non starter as no one needs tat much water, so you can just state that. You will need to do a percolation test to see if option 2 is feasible.

 

TBF what they really don't want is a connection to the sewer network, they may not be too fussed between option 2 and option 3 but I don't have any experience of this They could just dogmatically stick to the policy.

 

https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/-/media/ScottishWater/Document-Hub/Business-and-Developers/Connecting-to-our-network/All-connections-information/190718SurfaceWaterGuidanceDoc8ppA4PagesHiRes.pdf

ah righ hopefully i dont need to bother with a soakaway theres been no mention of it in the planning conditions so fingers crossed i can just tie into a drain

[Kelvin]

2 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

ah right i see, yes ill aim to allow a month between groundswork finishing then and kit arrival the grounds work will likely need a few weeks to set and harden up anyway, ok thats not as bad if its paid in stages though less risky than paying a huge chunk up front, why would you do stick build instead out of interest? purely from a cost point of view?

With stick building you own all the materials when they are delivered to site. The only risk is theft or damage. Stick building ought to be slightly cheaper. You’ll have more flexibility in sizing the kit and insulation options. Timber kits are hard to adjust and are typically SIP panels. 
 

I don’t think you quite understand stage payments. In my case we had paid 92% of the total cost by the time we got to 2 weeks from the delivery date. The first stage payment was made 6 months from the delivery date. We were financially exposed for all of that time until it was delivered. During that period there were two timber kit companies that went bust that I know of. 
 

The supposed advantage of a timber kit is a more accurate kit and a quicker build time for the super structure. However, in my case the kit was manufactured incorrectly and their 4 week build schedule took 9 weeks. 
 

There’s nothing wrong with timber kits per se, my view is coloured by my experience. But I’d never build a timber kit again if there was the same level of financial exposure. 

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

With stick building you own all the materials when they are delivered to site. The only risk is theft or damage. Stick building ought to be slightly cheaper. You’ll have more flexibility in sizing the kit and insulation options. Timber kits are hard to adjust and are typically SIP panels. 
 

I don’t think you quite understand stage payments. In my case we had paid 92% of the total cost by the time we got to 2 weeks from the delivery date. The first stage payment was made 6 months from the delivery date. We were financially exposed for all of that time until it was delivered. During that period there were two timber kit companies that went bust that I know of. 
 

The supposed advantage of a timber kit is a more accurate kit and a quicker build time for the super structure. However, in my case the kit was manufactured incorrectly and their 4 week build schedule took 9 weeks. 
 

There’s nothing wrong with timber kits per se, my view is coloured by my experience. But I’d never build a timber kit again if there was the same level of financial exposure. 

would it take a certain kind of specialised joiner to erect the stick build on site? its bound to be fairly technical, 

 

ah really, i didnt realise you were exposed to that level that could amount to a serious loss of money is there any kind of insurance that can cover you? ill need to make sure i pick a well established compay then to lower risk if i take this option, what sort of figure would you think is fair for a 180m2 1 and 3/4 storey rectangular house erected? looking at scotframes website i cold be 80-90k although this includes doors and windows, ive heard some quote 50-60k for theirs

[Redoctober]

20 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

what sort of figure would you think is fair for a 180m2 1 and 3/4 storey rectangular house erected? looking at scotframes website i cold be 80-90k although this includes doors and windows, ive heard some quote 50-60k for theirs

 

Take a look at Fleming Homes - their website is very useful - as a guide - to possible costs depending upon your preferred build route. Other useful stuff too, which might help.

[MR10]

5 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

ah right i better wait until i have other things in place then before applying  for the grant then, ah i see youve used scotframe i would consider them for the fact they seem to include a lot more in their package than other suppliers, how did you get on with them? were they ok on price overall compared to others?

 

I have no complaints, they've been fantastic so far and on hand to answer any queries. Price wise they were ok, they reflected the drop in timber cost on our final quotation. 

They don't erect (though that might have changed), and if you ask they'll give you a very short list of trusted erectors. Bear in mind that with Scotframe if you order direct you'll need to wait a bit to claim the VAT back, alternatively you can get your builder to place the order and it's zero VAT to you upfront as it'll be on a supply and erect basis. If I were to build again I wouldn't hesitate to use them based on my experience. 

But shop around, you won't know what it may cost until you get quotes from the TF suppliers, then you can scrutinise what's included or not and decide what's best value for your money. 

[saveasteading]

2 minutes ago, MR10 said:

supply and erect basis. 

But that passes cash handling and risk to the erector. 

They will decline your suggestion, or charge a fair amount for this onus.

What woild they charge? 20%?

Wait for the VAT say I.

[MR10]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

But that passes cash handling and risk to the erector. 

They will decline your suggestion, or charge a fair amount for this onus.

What woild they charge? 20%?

Wait for the VAT say I.

We placed our order directly as the risk of handing money over to a third party/erector wasn't worth it. Quite happy to wait for the VAT but some folk may have cash flow issues and may want to consider all available options even if it means the erector charges say 5% extra for this .

[Amateur bob]

4 hours ago, Redoctober said:

 

Take a look at Fleming Homes - their website is very useful - as a guide - to possible costs depending upon your preferred build route. Other useful stuff too, which might help.

ok will do, do fleming homes do the groundswork too or just supply timber frame?

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, MR10 said:

I have no complaints, they've been fantastic so far and on hand to answer any queries. Price wise they were ok, they reflected the drop in timber cost on our final quotation. 

They don't erect (though that might have changed), and if you ask they'll give you a very short list of trusted erectors. Bear in mind that with Scotframe if you order direct you'll need to wait a bit to claim the VAT back, alternatively you can get your builder to place the order and it's zero VAT to you upfront as it'll be on a supply and erect basis. If I were to build again I wouldn't hesitate to use them based on my experience. 

But shop around, you won't know what it may cost until you get quotes from the TF suppliers, then you can scrutinise what's included or not and decide what's best value for your money. 

ok yes ill shop around and see, im surprised they dont erect the frames themselves though, if i were to get a builder to order the frame im presuming id have to give the builder money for it in advance which could be a potential risk?

[Amateur bob]

1 hour ago, MR10 said:

We placed our order directly as the risk of handing money over to a third party/erector wasn't worth it. Quite happy to wait for the VAT but some folk may have cash flow issues and may want to consider all available options even if it means the erector charges say 5% extra for this .

is it upon having the completion certificate that you get the vat back?

[saveasteading]

3 hours ago, MR10 said:

even if it means the erector charges say 5% extra for this .

Why would the erector want the risk that you don't want? He would have the double risk of the supplier going bust or the client not paying  as well as the cash flow issue of  making the big deposit.

 

A main contractor doing the whole project might agree to do it, but will still charge for the the risk, although the client might not spot it as a specific item.

 

I'm thinking 20% mark-up on the frame is nowhere near enough for me.

What would you want to charge me if the positions were reversed?

 

 

 

[Kelvin]

6 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

would it take a certain kind of specialised joiner to erect the stick build on site? its bound to be fairly technical, 

 

ah really, i didnt realise you were exposed to that level that could amount to a serious loss of money is there any kind of insurance that can cover you? ill need to make sure i pick a well established compay then to lower risk if i take this option, what sort of figure would you think is fair for a 180m2 1 and 3/4 storey rectangular house erected? looking at scotframes website i cold be 80-90k although this includes doors and windows, ive heard some quote 50-60k for theirs

1. No any experienced joiner that’s done complete builds will be able to do it. You need good detailed construction drawings. 
 

2. Yes you can insure against it but it’s expensive. BJP Insurance is one company that does it. 
 

3. Too hard to answer as you need to know exactly what’s included and what isn’t to understand the cost in detail. 
 

4. Established companies are no guarantee to not going bust. Flight Timber went bust and had been trading for 30 years. Documented on here. 
 

5. A lot of your questions have been discussed on here. Do a search.