Planning passed.......next stages

[Amateur bob]

Good morning, im in central scotland and i have managed to get planning passed on 1 3/4 storey 5 bed house 180m2,  and now have a guy working on doing the building warrant and engineers to come and look at the plot to dig test holes to asses foundation type/draw up drainage plans, im guessing all this could take around 4 months?

 

being the first time of doing such a thing does anyone suggest what would be the correct order in which to proceed with next steps? should i start getting quotes on groundworks, timberframe etc or i presume i need to wait on all the detailed engineered drawings for this step aswell as a self build mortgage application? ive been thinking about water and elec connections and have a good idea now on how to proceed with these

 

i may get some builders quotes to undertake the full job but i think the budget may only allow for me to personall organise seperately

 

a groundworks team for founds

a timberframe supplier to supply/erect frame

a roofer

plasterer

stone masonary for exterior cladding which is natural sandstone

windows/doors etc and a klargester bio disk

electricians, plumbers and joiner

 

any suggestions on next steps while i wait for building warrant would be helpful

 

thanks

[Blooda]

Well done.

 

Plenty to do, we went out for quotes for turn key, and they came back more than the house was would be worth [not including the fact we had bought the land !!]

 

Sort out services, can never have them too early.  BT/Open reach got them selves in a bit of pickle and there was delay of month months to get a line [I got compensated 🙂.

 

Our ground worker was also the guy who did our landscaping, known him for 25+ years.  he set up the site ready for landscaping and drive same time as he did the foundations, even though it would be 2 years later when he returned.

 

Sort out site insurance and [if required] warranty.

 

Get a container to site for storage.

 

Search Facebook market place / ebay / Gumtree for anything that may be useful.  Temporary fencing / generator / Random tools/building materials.  Shelving.

 

 

  

Edited October 23, 2023 by Blooda

[Kelvin]

Well done. First big step. 
 

Do you have an SE lined up? 
 

You’re about where I was last year. I applied for the warrant before I had the SE pack and then submitted that when I eventually got it. The SE pack took 11 weeks to get. Most frustrating. 
 

Most groundworks companies won’t be able to estimate/quote until you have a foundation design and drainage plan etc. I don’t know what your area is like but I really struggled to even get quotes. I contacted 6 companies and got three quotes back two of which took 3 months to get. This is in Perthshire about this time last year. Similar story with every other trade. Therefore I’d be researching them all now to draw up a long list. Once you have your construction drawings and timescales you can start contacting them for quotes and availability etc. I have found managing individual trades hard work to be honest. Trying to line them up at the right times is near impossible. For example I had plasterers lined up who are now only coming on odd days weekends so it’s really slowing me up. The work quality is excellent but at at very slow pace. 
 

Don’t forget scaffolders! A neighbour did then couldn’t get anyone to site for weeks. Held him up.

[Susie]

Congratulations on getting planning permission. 
I found choosing the windows the hardest, they are a big expense and if you want to see them rather than just off the Internet you may find you need to travel a bit. Have you got Part O passed because you need to know your windows for that.  
I found Groundworks teams were easy but builders hard to book in. 
I would have thought you need to discuss your plans with the timber frame before the warrant. 
A roofer and possibly solar depends on your overall time frame.  You might need roof/truss calculations for the warrant in England we don’t keep them for building control they can be a condition to passing BC like planning conditions. 
For example next year we only plan to do the foundations, the shell will be the following year because we can’t afford the solar and windows to make it waterproof so I’m not asking for the truss calculations until we know for sure who is going to make them.  As they are self employed and I understand what work is done for free on a job like quotes when it can be years before the job come through. 
You can definitely get on with the electric, water and tele. You might save if they are all in one trench but you don’t need to do connections unless you need the service for the build as standing charges can mount up. 
Well done again on the planning. 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

Most groundworks companies won’t be able to estimate/quote until you have a foundation design and drainage plan

A very good, fairly big, contractor can look at your project at planning stage and say..allow about £x. Probably +/- 10%.

It can take 10 minutes or an hour.

But they will be reluctant to do so unless they think you may use them.

Big BUT....they won't know your site or any specific challenges, and you must allow for that.

 

That seems to be one of your options, so you don't seem to be a hands-on.

Therefore speak to a few and see what they say.

 

Or pay an estimating company to do it. They don't need full designs, but it will be rather approximate.

 

Other than that, take the advice elsewhere on BH to allow £2,000/ft2.

Less for simple and diy, more for complex and professional build.

Main contractor £3,000???? Others may know better.

 

[MR10]

Well done on getting planning. This is where the hard work begins. 

 

We got budget quotes from timber frame, windows, solar, ashp, and roofing suppliers at this stage using planning drawings just to get an idea of costs and to get on their books. We then narrowed down who we wanted to use and followed up with the warrant drawings later on.

For groundworks though you'll need to send detailed drawings and even then, there will be unknowns until they start to dig so allow a healthy contingency for this when the time comes just in case.

 

In the meantime you can visit various timber frame suppliers/installers if that's your preference. There's also the option to stick build on site.

If you plan on using ashp, solar, you may want to look at Home Energy Scotland for grants and interest free loans.

 

You can never start too early with getting services in. For example, we paid for SSEN connection in April after months of communications prior and the earliest they can connect us is in November.

 

If you want to build better than the minimum regs this is the time to let your SE/warrant guy know else you'll just get the bare minimum e.g., insulation, air tightness etc. 

 

Don't let the tail wag the dog, remember, this is your house and you're the one going to live in it, so make sure you study the details of the warrant pack before submission and ask questions as needed.

 

Look out for bargains especially this time of year for sanitary ware and the like. 

I believe you can clear the site in preparation and for services but you can't start foundation works until warrant is approved.

 

Make sure you send the notice for commencing development to planning before you start, it's usually a form attached to your full planning permission document.

 

Read up on VAT reclaim for self builds, so you don't get charged VAT on supply and fit and you can claim back on allowable materials bought by yourself at the end of the build.

Edited October 23, 2023 by MR10
VAT added

[Kelvin]

54 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

A very good, fairly big, contractor can look at your project at planning stage and say..allow about £x. Probably +/- 10%.

I

 

Maybe but not one of the 6 companies I contacted would estimate other than saying between £30k-£80k . I’d budgeted £50k right enough. 

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Blooda said:

Well done.

 

Plenty to do, we went out for quotes for turn key, and they came back more than the house was would be worth [not including the fact we had bought the land !!]

 

Sort out services, can never have them too early.  BT/Open reach got them selves in a bit of pickle and there was delay of month months to get a line [I got compensated 🙂.

 

Our ground worker was also the guy who did our landscaping, known him for 25+ years.  he set up the site ready for landscaping and drive same time as he did the foundations, even though it would be 2 years later when he returned.

 

Sort out site insurance and [if required] warranty.

 

Get a container to site for storage.

 

Search Facebook market place / ebay / Gumtree for anything that may be useful.  Temporary fencing / generator / Random tools/building materials.  Shelving.

 

 

  

yes ive heard these turnkey prices can be a bit out of hand is there much room for negotiation? yes ill likely sort out services over the winter while im waiting i dont think ill bother with a phone line though i never use one these days

 

regarding site insurance how soon before building commences should i get this in place?

 

thanks

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Well done. First big step. 
 

Do you have an SE lined up? 
 

You’re about where I was last year. I applied for the warrant before I had the SE pack and then submitted that when I eventually got it. The SE pack took 11 weeks to get. Most frustrating. 
 

Most groundworks companies won’t be able to estimate/quote until you have a foundation design and drainage plan etc. I don’t know what your area is like but I really struggled to even get quotes. I contacted 6 companies and got three quotes back two of which took 3 months to get. This is in Perthshire about this time last year. Similar story with every other trade. Therefore I’d be researching them all now to draw up a long list. Once you have your construction drawings and timescales you can start contacting them for quotes and availability etc. I have found managing individual trades hard work to be honest. Trying to line them up at the right times is near impossible. For example I had plasterers lined up who are now only coming on odd days weekends so it’s really slowing me up. The work quality is excellent but at at very slow pace. 
 

Don’t forget scaffolders! A neighbour did then couldn’t get anyone to site for weeks. Held him up.

yes i have an SE lined up now, yes i thought this might be the case hopefully ill be able to find a good groundswork company theres one in fife im told is quite good but well see, 3 months is a long time to wait on a quote thats concerning, yes getting the trades to come in the right order and at the right time is something i do worry about

 

ah yes scaffolding, how long before the build will i need this booked roughly?

 

thanks

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Susie said:

Congratulations on getting planning permission. 
I found choosing the windows the hardest, they are a big expense and if you want to see them rather than just off the Internet you may find you need to travel a bit. Have you got Part O passed because you need to know your windows for that.  
I found Groundworks teams were easy but builders hard to book in. 
I would have thought you need to discuss your plans with the timber frame before the warrant. 
A roofer and possibly solar depends on your overall time frame.  You might need roof/truss calculations for the warrant in England we don’t keep them for building control they can be a condition to passing BC like planning conditions. 
For example next year we only plan to do the foundations, the shell will be the following year because we can’t afford the solar and windows to make it waterproof so I’m not asking for the truss calculations until we know for sure who is going to make them.  As they are self employed and I understand what work is done for free on a job like quotes when it can be years before the job come through. 
You can definitely get on with the electric, water and tele. You might save if they are all in one trench but you don’t need to do connections unless you need the service for the build as standing charges can mount up. 
Well done again on the planning. 

i have a guy working on the warrant currently hes done a few of them so i personally dont know, he did mention the windows were mostly standard sizes and relatively easy to source apart from 2, what is part 0 exactly?

 

i havent chosen a timber frame company yet im currently just thinking of that, why would i need to discuss the plans with the timber frame company before the warrant can i not do this after? 

 

i dont think ill bother with solar at the moment this would put me over my budget which could already be tight, yes ill work away looking to get the services in, could i just mole plough a water pipe through a field just now up to where the connection point would be so that  its laid and one less job to do during the build? i could get it connected up at a later date?

 

thanks

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

A very good, fairly big, contractor can look at your project at planning stage and say..allow about £x. Probably +/- 10%.

It can take 10 minutes or an hour.

But they will be reluctant to do so unless they think you may use them.

Big BUT....they won't know your site or any specific challenges, and you must allow for that.

 

That seems to be one of your options, so you don't seem to be a hands-on.

Therefore speak to a few and see what they say.

 

Or pay an estimating company to do it. They don't need full designs, but it will be rather approximate.

 

Other than that, take the advice elsewhere on BH to allow £2,000/ft2.

Less for simple and diy, more for complex and professional build.

Main contractor £3,000???? Others may know better.

 

yes this could be an option whats the difference between getting as you say a big contractor to look at it or a main contractor option? do you mean one of the big housing companies?

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, MR10 said:

Well done on getting planning. This is where the hard work begins. 

 

We got budget quotes from timber frame, windows, solar, ashp, and roofing suppliers at this stage using planning drawings just to get an idea of costs and to get on their books. We then narrowed down who we wanted to use and followed up with the warrant drawings later on.

For groundworks though you'll need to send detailed drawings and even then, there will be unknowns until they start to dig so allow a healthy contingency for this when the time comes just in case.

 

In the meantime you can visit various timber frame suppliers/installers if that's your preference. There's also the option to stick build on site.

If you plan on using ashp, solar, you may want to look at Home Energy Scotland for grants and interest free loans.

 

You can never start too early with getting services in. For example, we paid for SSEN connection in April after months of communications prior and the earliest they can connect us is in November.

 

If you want to build better than the minimum regs this is the time to let your SE/warrant guy know else you'll just get the bare minimum e.g., insulation, air tightness etc. 

 

Don't let the tail wag the dog, remember, this is your house and you're the one going to live in it, so make sure you study the details of the warrant pack before submission and ask questions as needed.

 

Look out for bargains especially this time of year for sanitary ware and the like. 

I believe you can clear the site in preparation and for services but you can't start foundation works until warrant is approved.

 

Make sure you send the notice for commencing development to planning before you start, it's usually a form attached to your full planning permission document.

 

Read up on VAT reclaim for self builds, so you don't get charged VAT on supply and fit and you can claim back on allowable materials bought by yourself at the end of the build.

yes i do plan on using an ashp will the grant need to be applied for well in advance? yes true i could email a few companies my planning drawings and see if they can give rough indications for each stage?

 

one thing im unsure of is at what stage should i contact the self build lenders? i was going to use build store but last time we spoke they said they needed planning passed and details, they would likely need the warranty passed and this info too? as this holds me up a bit for other things i.e deposit on TF or applying for ASHP grants etc until i actually know for sure the build is feasable

 

ok yes ill have a good study of whats in this warranty pack before submitting

 

thanks

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Maybe but not one of the 6 companies I contacted would estimate other than saying between £30k-£80k . I’d budgeted £50k right enough. 

50k is higher than id imagined did you consider hiring a  digger and doing the founds yourself or was it a more complicated type of found than a strip foundation?

[saveasteading]

18 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

Do you mean one of the big housing

NO. 

A local, general builder.

It will cost you 20% more than splitting it up, but you don't have to manage it,  just pay.

[saveasteading]

28 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

why would i need to discuss the plans with the timber frame

In case your designer ignores buildability. That adds costs, especially steel.

[Kelvin]

14 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

50k is higher than id imagined did you consider hiring a  digger and doing the founds yourself or was it a more complicated type of found than a strip foundation?

My site is on a considerable slope so required a fair bit of cutting and filling. The £50k included the large garage foundation, all the drainage, sewerage treatment plant and retaining wall. 

[Kelvin]

58 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

 

 

ah yes scaffolding, how long before the build will i need this booked roughly?

 

thanks

A question for the scaffolders. For a timber kit you typically get the ground floor walls up first, then the scaffolders put the scaffold up then the rest of the kit gets erected. I booked the scaffolders in January for kit delivery on the 17 April with the scaffold going up on the 20 April. The only aspect of the build that happened when it was planned to happen. 
 

 

They’ll likely ask for a scaffold plan so you’ll need to think about that but the kit company should supply this. Scaffold takes up a lot of space (2.5m from the house) so you need to think about in term of access etc For us it meant not having any scaffolding on the driveway side of the building as it would have restricted the telehandler access. 
 

Another thing to consider is how much hardcore to put down around your building. We put down 3m minimum perimeter all around the house. This meant the site hasn’t turned into a muddy mess that gets trailed into the house. It’s also helped with drainage and vehicle access. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Kelvin

[AliG]

I would apply to SP Networks and Scottish Water for connections ASAP as you might find some nasty surprises.

 

Assuming it is not in the middle of nowhere, electricity should be a fairly standard cost.

 

Drainage can be an issue, you need a percolation test when you have the ground test as they do not like rainwater going to the combined sewer, they will want it going into some kind of percolation system.

 

You may not need an SE as this service may be provided by the timber frame company. Planning drawings should be enough for them to give you an estimate. I would probably look to have the timber frame company supply and erect the frame.

 

Windows tend to be the most expensive item with the longest lead time although some companies will supply them as part of the frame package.

[saveasteading]

6 hours ago, Blooda said:

quotes for turn key, and they came back more than the house was would be worth

That's the reality.

Self build is not for making a profit. In the SE the land value is so high that the build cost seems less important.

Where land is cheaper, it is better value to buy a nice house.

 

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

NO. 

A local, general builder.

It will cost you 20% more than splitting it up, but you don't have to manage it,  just pay.

ah right so that would near enough be like turnkey then? could def be an option if budget allows will need to see what lender comes back with

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, saveasteading said:

In case your designer ignores buildability. That adds costs, especially steel.

ah i see, its quite a simple rectangle design and designer built one near enough the exact same so hopefully he hasnt ignored buildability

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

My site is on a considerable slope so required a fair bit of cutting and filling. The £50k included the large garage foundation, all the drainage, sewerage treatment plant and retaining wall. 

ah right the cutting and filling would be done with a digger? we did that once with the subsoil when building a shed, thats actually a reasonable price if it includes sewerage treatment etc did you go for a klargester?

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, Kelvin said:

A question for the scaffolders. For a timber kit you typically get the ground floor walls up first, then the scaffolders put the scaffold up then the rest of the kit gets erected. I booked the scaffolders in January for kit delivery on the 17 April with the scaffold going up on the 20 April. The only aspect of the build that happened when it was planned to happen. 
 

 

They’ll likely ask for a scaffold plan so you’ll need to think about that but the kit company should supply this. Scaffold takes up a lot of space (2.5m from the house) so you need to think about in term of access etc For us it meant not having any scaffolding on the driveway side of the building as it would have restricted the telehandler access. 
 

Another thing to consider is how much hardcore to put down around your building. We put down 3m minimum perimeter all around the house. This meant the site hasn’t turned into a muddy mess that gets trailed into the house. It’s also helped with drainage and vehicle access. 

ah right i didnt know the timber frame company would give me a scaffolding plan thats good to know, roughly if i was to order a timber frame kit in say may time once ive building warrant and mortgage sorted out how long can one reasonably expect until the kit could be on site? 4-6 months?

 

im ok for hardcore im planning to dig some out a field when the weather dries up so i can put plenty round the site to keep it clean

 

thanks

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 minute ago, Amateur bob said:

for hardcore im planning to dig some out a field when the weather dries up

A hardcore crop? 

[Amateur bob]

2 hours ago, AliG said:

I would apply to SP Networks and Scottish Water for connections ASAP as you might find some nasty surprises.

 

Assuming it is not in the middle of nowhere, electricity should be a fairly standard cost.

 

Drainage can be an issue, you need a percolation test when you have the ground test as they do not like rainwater going to the combined sewer, they will want it going into some kind of percolation system.

 

You may not need an SE as this service may be provided by the timber frame company. Planning drawings should be enough for them to give you an estimate. I would probably look to have the timber frame company supply and erect the frame.

 

Windows tend to be the most expensive item with the longest lead time although some companies will supply them as part of the frame package.

theres electric nearby but the water mains is 800m away ill need to get fresh quotes, i was planning to tie the drainage into a field drain which takes the water off to a burn, ah really i didnt know this although i wont know which frame company im using until i get the building warrant and mortgage agreed, yes true i notice scotframe include doors, windows and insulation in their package although they are far from cheap

 

thanks