Faulty window seals?

[Adsibob]

Got home this evening to discover water ingress at our kitchen window. This, as with all our other windows, is an Aluminium 2G MetTherm casement window which was installed almost 2 years ago. A couple of the windows had problems shortly after installation, but these were fixed by the installer, the problems having been identified a couple of days after installation. The installer also supplied them, so there wasn’t any room for them to dodge responsibility. We’ve not had any problems since then.

There appear to be various drips that have come in from the top horizontal seals, and possibly also at the vertical edge - difficult to tell whether the water at the edge came in from that edge or dripped down from the top edge. They are top hung. This is part of the extension, so everything is new and I’m wondering how I prove this is a window issue, rather than some other construction issue?

 

Some of our (rather expensive) clay plaster has been ruined by the leak. Not much really, but enough to notice if you know where to look. I suspect the window company will have purported to exclude such consequential loss, and I can choose to either argue with them about the lawfulness of such an exclusion clause, or make a claim against my buildings insurer, or just accept the marked plaster.
 

[Adsibob]

[Lofty718]

We are getting a lot of wind driven rain at the moment and this could be exposing the issue. Get the installer back to rectify this, I imagine those windows cost a fortune to buy and install, water ingress so soon is unacceptable. Is the installer FENSA / CERTASS registered?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Lofty718

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, Lofty718 said:

We are getting a lot of wind driven rain at the moment and this could be exposing the issue. Get the installer back to rectify this, I imagine those windows cost a fortune to buy and install, water ingress so soon is unacceptable. Is the installer FENSA / CERTASS registered?

Yes, I think it must be wind driven rain because the window itself is under a slight recess in the brickwork that is almost 5cm, though I note with it was more.

 The installer is FENSA accredited, but that doesn’t mean they can’t try to exempt liability for what they will call consequential damage to the plasterwork. I will give them a call first thing in the morning.

 With another window, we noticed a draft shortly after installation and they came back and tightened a part which they called “the mushrooms”. I wonder if it’s the same issue here?

[Lofty718]

I've heard being FENSA/CERTASS registered doesn't mean much anyway so you will probably be relying on the good will of the installer to come back and fix this.

 

Unless there's an issue with the construction I don't see how it can't be their liability and considering this is your second issue it points to a badly done install.

 

Were you able to get the issue with your roof resolved?

[craig]

On 19/10/2023 at 00:36, Lofty718 said:

I've heard being FENSA/CERTASS registered doesn't mean much anyway so you

 

In this instance, not really, FENSA/CERTASS are about self certifying replacement windows with building control. GGF would be the ones to look at and if he is registered with them but, I would be looking at this with the installer/manufacturer.

Where the water is shown, is not necessarily where it is coming in from.

[Adsibob]

So it’s not the windows. Is either the brickwork or the roof. I f**cking hate this. 
Question: Does a coping stone need to project beyond the edge of of the brick that it sits on. We have a parapet wall, and the coping “stone” at the top, which is actually a composite made to look like slate, does not fully cover the top brick. So it’s possible water is coming in from there and seeping down ten rows of bricks and then getting into the window that way. Seems impossible to me, but the window company have shown me that the screws fixing the top of the window into the brickwork/lintel from underneath the opening where the window in question is are all rusted and their position coincides with where the water is coming in. It’s not a huge amount of water, maybe 20ml a day since a few dates ago, and only after quite a bit of rain.

 

Other possibility is lack of drip profile on underside of brickwork where window opening is, but architect assures me this is not required for brickwork where the joint between the brickwork and the window is sealed with mastic sealant, as is the case here. I guess the sealant could have failed??

[SteamyTea]

On 18/10/2023 at 21:49, Adsibob said:

Got home this evening to discover

I was thinking about you this morning, not in a peculiar way.

You have started your new job now haven't you?

How is it going.

[Adsibob]

13 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I was thinking about you this morning, not in a peculiar way.

You have started your new job now haven't you?

How is it going.

The job is pretty good. Not having time for issues with the house was suiting me rather well, until I started noticing water ingress. It just really p!sses me off that we spent a fortune and the newest bit of the house (ie the extension) is the bit that’s been problematic in terms of weather proofing.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Adsibob

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Adsibob said:

the newest bit of the house (ie the extension) is the bit that’s been problematic in terms of weather proofing.

A builder would call that 'snagging'.

We would call the builder something else.

 

Glad the job is going OK.  Must be strange going back to work after 4 months or so off, I only managed 2 months off, seems like I have never been away from it now.

[Adsibob]

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

A builder would call that 'snagging'.

 

Annoyingly, our first water ingress issue started a month or so after the 12 month snagging period had completed. FFS!

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

 

We would call the builder something else.

 

Glad the job is going OK.  Must be strange going back to work after 4 months or so off, I only managed 2 months off, seems like I have never been away from it now.

Yes, it was a bit odd being off for so long. I enjoyed much of it, but I think I’m on the whole better when I have a job and a salary. 

[Adsibob]

Here is a picture of the rusty screw by the way:

 

I’m really concerned that water has managed to get that deep into the brick work. 

[LnP]

I had a lot of water coming in from a newly built parapet wall around a flat roof. After a lot of head scratching and reading up (see attached from Handisyde "Everyday Details" Architectural Press mid '70s) we concluded there were 2 things wrong:

1. The roof was GRP covered and although the builder had brought the GRP up the wall and across the top of the parapet under the copings, he hadn't brought it all the way across.

2. He hadn't installed a cavity tray.

So the copings had to come off, two courses of brick removed from the outer leaf so that a cavity tray could be  installed (with drain holes), and the GRP carried all the way across the top of the wall to act as the DPC.

It doesn't leak any more.

 

Handisyde. Parapets.P.99.pdf Handisyde. Parapets.P.100.pdf Handisyde.Parapets.P.101.pdf

Edited October 23, 2023 by LnP

[Adsibob]

So I don’t think we have a cavity tray either. Is this a breach of building regs? If so, shouldn’t it have been picked up by building control???

[Adsibob]

44 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

So I don’t think we have a cavity tray either. Is this a breach of building regs? If so, shouldn’t it have been picked up by building control???

I’ve checked the drawings, and they do show cavity closers. It doesn’t say “cavity closer” it says DPC tray, which I’m hoping is the same thing; basically shows a DPC closing off the cavity. But discussing this with the architect, he tells me that the builder should have provided weep holes for the water to come out at certain points between the bricks. This definitely hasn’t been done. Architect’s suggestion is to cut out the mortar at those points and install the weep holes/vents now.

 

I really do find this astonishing. Not sure what buildings regs is actually for, other than bureaucracy and fee generation.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Adsibob

[LnP]

The cavity tray in our case was just a strip of polyethylene DPC which was wide enough to be in the mortar beds 1 course down in the inner leaf and 2 courses down in the outer leaf, so that it sloped to the outside. Weep holes marked with red arrows in the attached photo. Rather annoyingly, the plastic weep holes were shorter than a brick width and I had to keep asking the bricky to clear the perp end mortar away from the inlet to the holes.

The GRP across the top of the wall is supported on cement board to stop it from sagging into the cavity.

I would have preferred copings with sloping tops ("weathered"), but the parapet wall is varying widths and the builder wasn't keen on mitring the corners.

If I had my time over, I'd try and avoid the parapet wall altogether. As well as introducing the need for copings, it made the balustrade more complicated.