Aberdeenshire Planning / Curtilage Question

[Space Race]

We would like to erect a polycrub (fancy polytunnel) on land to the front of our property. In Aberdeenshire (not sure about elsewhere) they seem to have an enquiry form you can fill out aptly titled “Do I Need Planning Permission?” which is then sent in to the council to clarify whether or not planning is required.

 

Part 7 of this form requires we submit an aerial view sketch with various information shown including,

 

“ Define the extent of your curtilage. This is generally the parcel of land associated with

the dwellinghouse for the enjoyment of the residents of the dwellinghouse and excludes

any other land which may be within your ownership, for instance, a field or paddock.”

 

The house sits within 6 acres and most of that is in front of the house. I’m not sure if all of this would be classed as curtilage or simply as a field. When we purchased the property I did ask the solicitor to clarify this but they could not.

 

The house was built over 30 years ago and the council state they no longer hold planning docs from that long ago.

 

Does any one know how best to go about establishing what land is what for the six acres? Not just for the polytunnel application, As I suspect this will raise it’s head again in the future.

[Bonner]

What about land registry, does it show just one parcel of land? Often domestic curtilage and paddocks are on separate deeds

[saveasteading]

 

 

There are often standard definitions that anything 'in front' of the house needs formal permission, while to the side and rear does not.  This is to avoid umpteen sheds going up in an urban street, spoiling the feel of the street.

 

To make it easy for the planner, which I think is usually worthwhile, I'd show the whole area  of your land and down to the road, and a clear line marked 'curtilage of house' , as the immediate surrounds, excluding the 6  acres.

 

Thus it will be immediately clear to the planner that this is  a long way from the road, and obviously associated with the house, and therefore acceptable without too much fuss.

A picture of the tunnel will help too. Maybe a photo of the location.  Anything to make you appear helpful and thoughtful, and to avoid the planner's need to ask any more questions.

 

They open the file, understand the issues in minutes, and reply saying no problem.

[Temp]

20 hours ago, Space Race said:

The house sits within 6 acres and most of that is in front of the house. I’m not sure if all of this would be classed as curtilage or simply as a field. When we purchased the property I did ask the solicitor to clarify this but they could not.

 

Are there any fences, hedges or ditches that form an obvious garden/field boundary? 

 

I think you will need Planning Permission either way because 6 acres is only about 2.5 Hectares so too small to be considered an "agricultural holding of five or more hectares, under Part 6, Class A of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order.  

 

 

[Space Race]

On 08/08/2023 at 13:59, Bonner said:

What about land registry, does it show just one parcel of land? Often domestic curtilage and paddocks are on separate deeds

Yes, The title plan only shows one parcel of land. I have yet to find any specific info for this property re domestic curtilage and from online searches on the subject, This does not seem to be uncommon.   

 

When I asked the solicitor about more info from the land register they replied "The Land Register of Scotland doesn’t keep different registers for different types of property, all properties, whether they are commercial, agricultural or residential, are registered under the same Land Register and this does not confirm what property comes under what category"

[saveasteading]

On 07/08/2023 at 19:56, Space Race said:

This is generally the parcel of land associated with

the dwellinghouse for the enjoyment of the residents of the dwellinghouse and excludes

any other land which may be within your ownership, for instance, a field or paddock.”

Aren't they saying that it is your opinion of the immediate surrounds?

[Space Race]

On 08/08/2023 at 16:35, saveasteading said:

 

 

There are often standard definitions that anything 'in front' of the house needs formal permission, while to the side and rear does not.  This is to avoid umpteen sheds going up in an urban street, spoiling the feel of the street.

 

To make it easy for the planner, which I think is usually worthwhile, I'd show the whole area  of your land and down to the road, and a clear line marked 'curtilage of house' , as the immediate surrounds, excluding the 6  acres.

 

Thus it will be immediately clear to the planner that this is  a long way from the road, and obviously associated with the house, and therefore acceptable without too much fuss.

A picture of the tunnel will help too. Maybe a photo of the location.  Anything to make you appear helpful and thoughtful, and to avoid the planner's need to ask any more questions.

 

They open the file, understand the issues in minutes, and reply saying no problem.

My gut feeling is that regardless of what curtilage the land falls under, We would need planning permission. They do advise using the form mentioned though if in doubt. The poly tunnel is 4x10m so not a small thing but given it's distance from the road and the fact it would barely be visible I'm hopeful we will get an ok one way or another. We will def be providing photo's, drawings and details though. 

[Space Race]

On 08/08/2023 at 16:58, Temp said:

 

Are there any fences, hedges or ditches that form an obvious garden/field boundary? 

 

I think you will need Planning Permission either way because 6 acres is only about 2.5 Hectares so too small to be considered an "agricultural holding of five or more hectares, under Part 6, Class A of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order.  

 

 

Re obvious boundary, Not really. From reading some online sources (Martin Goodall's site) It seems sometimes the domestic curtilage is decided when they come out to inspect

[Space Race]

5 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Aren't they saying that it is your opinion of the immediate surrounds?

Honestly not sure.

 

It feels like any documents (original planning?) that may have existed and defined our domestic curtilage have been lost and if we wished to re-define this we would be at the mercy of whomever decides these things.

 

[Bonner]

15 minutes ago, Space Race said:

Re obvious boundary, Not really. From reading some online sources (Martin Goodall's site) It seems sometimes the domestic curtilage is decided when they come out to inspect

In this case, it may be in your interest to define your own curtilage. Not only on a drawing but also by erecting some kind of boundary. A simple post and rail fence should be sufficient, make it look permanent but keep in mind you may need to move it. Keep the area reasonably in proportion to the house, one purpose of defining domestic curtilage is to restrict urban sprawl in the countryside.

[saveasteading]

How about a few trees or shrubs? domestic rather than country.

 

3 in a row is a statement.

 

if there is any suggestion of a break in flora, that would be the place , or here's the answer: how far would you wander from the house of an evening with glass in hand?

[Bonner]

21 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

how far would you wander from the house of an evening with glass in hand?

Absolutely! Must be the very definition of one’s curtilage 😉

[Temp]

Few trees and a hedge. Fertilize/lawn sand the lawn area to make it a darker green colour and cut it a different length.

 

Perhaps check old aerial photos for any evidence of a boundary.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Temp