Advice Needed - Bonnet Hip Tiles

[ProblematicPanda15]

Hi All,

We're currently going through a full home renovation of our family home, which included the replacement of the roof. We decided on some additional detailing on the ridges by going for bonnet hip tiles. My builder assured me that the contractor would be able to do this, but upon completion, I am not happy with the results at all.

As you can see from the photos, there is no uniformity in the fitting, the finish looks messy and uncleaned, and it is not straight. I tried to have them address these issues throughout the installation of the roof bonnets, but clearly to no avail. I am not expecting it to be completely straight, and I understand that each tile will have a slightly different shape, but it does not look satisfactory to me.

I am withholding part of the payment for the roof until the roof bonnets are re-done to a better standard, but my builder is demanding the payment stating the job is complete and that this is the best that can be done.

I'm currently feeling like this detailing was completely oversold and underdelivered by the builder, but wanted to check in to see if I am overreacting in my unhappiness with the finish, or if I'm right to demand them to be re-done.

Any advice or thoughts welcome!!

Thank you!

[makie]

The cement work looks extremely poor but honestly bonnets are awful right now.

I done a job recently that had 500+ bonnets and every single one of them was different. We just had to sort through the batches to try and get it the closest we could. Redlands cop out was they are handmade so they will never be uniform.

[bassanclan]

That is poor, you can definitely do better

[ProblematicPanda15]

13 hours ago, makie said:

The cement work looks extremely poor but honestly bonnets are awful right now.

I done a job recently that had 500+ bonnets and every single one of them was different. We just had to sort through the batches to try and get it the closest we could. Redlands cop out was they are handmade so they will never be uniform.

 

Agreed - while I do appreciate that bonnets are not uniform, it should not amount to the poor finish that I've received. As you point out, the cement work looks extremely poor - clearly no care or attention to the cement used to set the bonnets, nor the willingness to clean them afterwards. There's also significant snaking, which is also a significant issue for me. 

[bassanclan]

The bottom 10-20 rows look staright, but going along the wrong direction for the ridge point, after that the bonnets are all over the place

[ProblematicPanda15]

11 hours ago, bassanclan said:

That is poor, you can definitely do better

 

Thought so - reaching out to other roofers for their opinion and quotes. My builder has stated that he's willing to remove them all and not charge, which to me is him accepting that they are not satisfactory either! 

[ProblematicPanda15]

Just now, bassanclan said:

The bottom 10-20 rows look staright, but going along the wrong direction for the ridge point, after that the bonnets are all over the place

 

@bassanclan Apologies, but what do you mean by wrong direction for the ridge point? 

[Dave Jones]

arris hips look much better and no muck. 

[ProblematicPanda15]

30 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

arris hips look much better and no muck. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Will consider them instead once I resolve the removal of the current bonnet hip tiles. 

[ProblematicPanda15]

The builder is happy to remove them, but not willing to re-do them (not that I would want him to on this evidence!), stating that this is the "best you will get without replacing the ridge board and roof timbers" - but not sure how much this holds true?

 

He thinks that this is the best finish I will get even if I go with another roofer, but I think he's just trying to justify the shoddy finish and receive payment. 

[Dave Jones]

to get them straight the tiles/tile and half either side will need recutting so the bonnets can sit square and in line.

 

I'd order arris hips to suit the pitch and some more tile and halfs to cut in. 

[bassanclan]

10 hours ago, ProblematicPanda15 said:

 

@bassanclan Apologies, but what do you mean by wrong direction for the ridge point? 

I meant that the bottom fee rows are in a straight line, but if you put a string line from the ridge to the corner of the house, these bonnets (although in a straight line) would not be on the string line

[Gus Potter]

On 29/07/2023 at 20:59, ProblematicPanda15 said:

We're currently going through a full home renovation of our family home,

 

12 hours ago, ProblematicPanda15 said:

Agreed - while I do appreciate that bonnets are not uniform

My backside. A hip should be straight up the line of the apex, even and pleasing to the eye, who told you otherwise? 

 

But to make a cogent argument you need to start on the inside of the roof and see how the rafters frame into the hip timber. If the joiner has made a pigs ear of that then the poor roofer is fighting a loosing battle.. in fact the roofer should have told you.. I'll do my best but your timber roof is crap.

 

If you can show that the timber roof is ok then next look at the tile battens and so on.. go through it step by step, if it transpires the roofer has cocked up then fair enough. 

 

However that hip is a mess. Try and understand what has gone wrong and then work with all the folk that had a hand in building the roof to make it look a bit better.

 

I think geometrically the problem has started at the eaves as the roofer has not understood how the angles work. It is really hard to get your head round this so mistakes are common.

 

But I think most of the problem lies in just bad workmanship, not using a stringline and not using the correct mortar.

 

 

[makie]

10 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

 

My backside. A hip should be straight up the line of the apex, even and pleasing to the eye, who told you otherwise?

 You're not going to get them all uniform these days as I stated above mate, Redland use the excuse that they are handmade as a way out.

 

[Mr Punter]

It is a shame and I can see why you are disappointed although most people would not notice and it will not affect the performance of the roof.

 

You appreciate that this is a total pain to remedy - it is not a bit of minor snagging.

 

Would you consider a reduction in the cost would be a sufficient remedy?

[ProblematicPanda15]

8 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

It is a shame and I can see why you are disappointed although most people would not notice and it will not affect the performance of the roof.

 

You appreciate that this is a total pain to remedy - it is not a bit of minor snagging.

 

Would you consider a reduction in the cost would be a sufficient remedy?

 

@Mr Punter This is also an argument of the roofer and builder but I do not think it's a justified response. I'm obviously paying close attention to it because it's my home, but it is still noticeable from the ground level. Also, just because "most people would not notice" does not legitimise the unsatisfactory nature of the work done. It should be done properly and right whether people will notice it or not.

 

I do appreciate that it may be a lot of work to remedy, but a real pain point of mine is that I tried to address the issues numerous times before they completed the bonnets. Clearly this was not taken onboard and now I'm left with a shoddy product. 

[ProblematicPanda15]

22 hours ago, bassanclan said:

I meant that the bottom fee rows are in a straight line, but if you put a string line from the ridge to the corner of the house, these bonnets (although in a straight line) would not be on the string line

 

@bassanclan Ahh got it. Yeah I see what you mean, they are straight but veering to the right, which explains why the roofer had bring it back to meet the ridge corner of the house. Seems like it was just wrong from the very beginning... 

[ProblematicPanda15]

20 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

But to make a cogent argument you need to start on the inside of the roof and see how the rafters frame into the hip timber. If the joiner has made a pigs ear of that then the poor roofer is fighting a loosing battle.. in fact the roofer should have told you.. I'll do my best but your timber roof is crap.

 

@Gus Potter Yup, and at no point was anything mentioned to be about the timbers, even when I was pointing out the issues prior to them being "completed". 

 

20 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

If you can show that the timber roof is ok then next look at the tile battens and so on.. go through it step by step, if it transpires the roofer has cocked up then fair enough. 

 

Related to the point above, but I believe the timber roof was ok as at no point was it mentioned that there was an issuer with the timber or that they needed replacing.

 

20 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

However that hip is a mess. Try and understand what has gone wrong and then work with all the folk that had a hand in building the roof to make it look a bit better.

 

This is part of the trouble now. The roofer is refusing to accept that this could have been done better, and now the builder is simply stating that (1) he can remove them (at no charge) and I find someone else to do it, or (2) that I accept them as they are (which will mean he demands payment for them). 

 

The issue I have with #1 is that I'm not sure how this impacts any guarantees that I receive from the builder on the roof.

 

Do you have any advice on how I could deal with this? 

[Dave Jones]

Get another roofer in to quote to sort, take off his quote from what you owe the builder.