luke666 Posted July 22, 2023 Posted July 22, 2023 Hi, I can't figure out if I need to earth panels if they are sat on GSE plastic panels? If so how do I size the cable? Any help from people with GSE inroof would be much appreciated?? Thanks Luke
luke666 Posted July 22, 2023 Author Posted July 22, 2023 That's with GSE Panels? Where did you rin it too? Did you go panel to panel?
JohnMo Posted July 22, 2023 Posted July 22, 2023 Panel to panel and then to ground. If you zoom in enough you can just see the earth between the panel at the top
SteamyTea Posted July 22, 2023 Posted July 22, 2023 1 hour ago, JohnMo said: Panel to panel and then to ground. Not needed though under the electrical regulations.
Jenki Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 Longi panel installation manual require ,grounding see section 7.
Thorfun Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I would check with the manufacturer of the PV panels (not GSE). we have Solaredge Optimisers and their manual states that earthing is not required. but I guess it differs from manufacturer to manufacturer
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Jenki said: Longi panel installation manual require ,grounding see section 7. Is that for ground mounted only though? It is hard to find information on this. I think, if it is grounded/earthed, then it needs an earthing rod and not connected to the house earth. Last thing you want is 1000V of DC going up the neutral line. Just found this BRE document. Page 22 https://files.bregroup.com/solar/Guide_to_the_installation_of_PV_systems_2nd_Edition.pdf Edited July 23, 2023 by SteamyTea
Conor Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I checked and never earthed mine. Asked here as well. Not sure if it was the right or wrong thing, but too late to worry about it.
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Conor said: I checked and never earthed mine. Asked here as well. Not sure if it was the right or wrong thing, but too late to worry about it. A quick read of that BRE document says it is not normally recommended, but you can do it.
Jenki Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, SteamyTea said: Is that for ground mounted only though? It is hard to find information on this. I think, if it is grounded/earthed, then it needs an earthing rod and not connected to the house earth. Last thing you want is 1000V of DC going up the neutral line. Just found this BRE document. Page 22 https://files.bregroup.com/solar/Guide_to_the_installation_of_PV_systems_2nd_Edition.pdf QUOTE: " In design of modules, the anodized corrosion resistant aluminum alloy frame is applied for rigidity support. For safety consideration and to protect modules from lightning and electrostatic damage, the module frame must be grounded. The grounding device must be in full contact with inner side of the aluminum alloy and penetrate surface oxide film of the frame. Do not drill additional grounding holes on module frame. The grounding conductor or wire may be copper, copper alloy, or any other material acceptable for application as an electrical conductor per respective National Electrical Codes. The grounding conductor must then make a connection to ground with a suitable ground electrode. Holes marked with a grounding mark on the frame can only be used for grounding but not for mounting. Frameless double glass modules have no exposed conductor, and therefore according to regulations it did not need to be grounded. Grounding methods below are permissible 1 Grounding by grounding clamp There have grounding holes with the diameter of Ø4.2 mm at the edge location of module's back-side frame. And the grounding holes are identified with typical grounding symbol according to IEC61730-1 standard. Grounding between modules shall be confirmed by qualified electricians and grounding devices shall be manufactured by qualified electric manufacturer. The torque of copper core wire used for the grounding clamp is recommended to be 2.3 Nm. 12 AWG. And copper wires cannot be pressed during installation in case of damaging. 2 Grounding by unoccupied mounting holes Mounting holes on modules that are not occupied can be used for installing grounding components. ◆ Align grounding clamp to the frame mounting hole. Use grounding bolt to go through the grounding clamp and frame. ◆ Put the tooth side of the washer on the other side and fasten the nuts. ◆ Put grounding wires through the grounding clamp and grounding wire material and dimension shall meet requirements in local national and regional law and regulations. ◆ Fasten bolts of grounding wires and then installation is completed. " My reading of this is they (Longi) need earthing.
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 Just now, Jenki said: My reading of this is they (Longi) need earthing. Maybe they are not Class2. It is, as I said earlier, hard to get to the bottom of this. Anyone got the latest copy of BS 7430, BS 6651 and BS 7671.
billt Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jenki said: per respective National Electrical Codes. Tells me that those instructions are aimed at the US market. They have different rules re earthing to us and seem to demand earthing of PV panels.
Thorfun Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, billt said: Tells me that those instructions are aimed at the US market. They have different rules re earthing to us and seem to demand earthing of PV panels. I remember (I think) in the Solaredge optimiser manual that for US they need earthing but not for other markets including the UK.
luke666 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 Well I put the first ones up today and have not earthed them... I am still confused about it all... Looks good though.. Will speak to my sparks tomorrow and see what he says...
luke666 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 Just to say that I can still earth if needed..
Thorfun Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, luke666 said: Just to say that I can still earth if needed.. speak to your electrician but if the manufacturer hasn't specifically said you don't need to earth and you can earth why wouldn't you? surely it gives extra protection for the small cost of a bit of copper?
luke666 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 I will speak to him and see... I don't mind either way, I just want to do it right but a lot of conflicting information and a lot of MCS installers don't seem to do it...
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 I think there may have been problems with some installers running the DC negative back to the consumer unit. So safer not to earth at all. I think the term 'earth' may be part of the problem. There is earthing, grounding and bonding, not sure what the electrical differences are. Ships have strange ways of running a wire to ground when they hook up in port, as do caravans I think.
luke666 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 So what would be the worse thing to happen if I don't earth?
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, luke666 said: So what would be the worse thing to happen if I don't earth? In a very rare alignment of electrical disasters you get a shock.
luke666 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Posted July 23, 2023 Off the panels I take it? Could it start a fire?
SteamyTea Posted July 23, 2023 Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, luke666 said: Off the panels I take it? Could it start a fire? The wiring is the most likely thing to start a fire and earthing does not always prevent that.
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