No seal at stove pipe to logburner collar

[Hunter7]

Hi, just had a logburner installed and the fitter has not sealed the joins where the stove pipe goes into the collar. He hasn't sealed the stove pipe to the liner adaptor and he has not sealed the adaptor to the liner.

 

He claims that pipes are "self sealing these days". Is he correct as it contradicts everything I've been told prior?

 

The logburner manufacturer is not aware of any such self sealing pipes either, except when joining lengths of stove pipe, as they are a tight fit.

 

I realised after he left that he also failed to provide a carbon monitor, despite me seeing it in the boxes that the flue items were in.

 

Of course, he is not responding to my messages, so just wondering if any of the members here have any knowledge of this stuff?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Alan Ambrose]

I sealed ours with the RAIS-recommended combination of high temp rope and special sealant.

 

Of course, you will use caution until you know it's sealed properly. It's probably completely obvious if it's not sealed. You can get some test smoke cartridges which you're meant to use to verify.

 

He's a HETAS guy?

[Discoeye]

Make sure you get a Hetas certificate for the install . +1 for high temp rope and sealant and yearly sweeps or your house insurance would be void if you cant prove regular maintenance .

[Hunter7]

Hi, he is a HETAS fitter allegedly, but I can only assume that these people are not vetted.

 

He did a smoke pellet test, which he seemed happy with. 

 

Certificate for the rope? What rope?

 

I have contacted HETAS to ask if a CO2 monitor was part of the install and they said that it was a NECESSITY and not to use the appliance until its fitted. They didnt actually  confirm that it was the fitters responsibility but the regs seem to make it quite clear that it is. I can easily get one, but as I have already paid for a full install, I don't see why I should.

 

Seems I have two choices here:

Report him to HETAS ( if that does any good)

Take him to court to persuade him to finish the install and refund me some of the money I paid ( original deal was to open the fireplace, install the logburner and render/plaster to finish. I did all the dirty work as he was 'too busy', I even helped him install the logburner and hearth. I think he owes me a refund on my 'full install'.)

 

[Hunter7]

Not C02, CO of course!

[Alan Ambrose]

While I'm all in favour of getting contractors to do a good job and addressing directly with them any problems - I think you need to determine first whether there actually is a problem.

 

Tell him you're concerned about the issues you are concerned about and ask for an explanation - make this by polite letter by recorded post because that makes it sound like you're treating it more seriously than might be assumed from a quick text / call / email exchange. Send this to his home address / or registered company address if a company (get that from companies house). Also you can check rather easily what sealing requirement there is for the stove you have - either by looking at the manual or calling the manufacturer. Do the smoke pellet test yourself and get a CO reading. If  you are still sure you have a problem ask him to explain / fix it - again politely but with a firm deadline. Use the final options if you have no other alternative.  

[Hunter7]

There is a problem, he has not done what Ive paid him to do or what he said he would do. He has made his position quite  clear but I will give that a go.

[TonyT]

What make is the stove pipe?

then you can find out the manufacturer instructions and have 100% accurate info regarding sealing

[Discoeye]

+1 for contacting the installer first to see if you can iron things out by asking him the questions you have. We had our old stove replaced about 3 years ago and a Co monitor alarm was supplied by the fitter and was told it was his responsibility to do so but didn't supply a Hetas certificate so I called Hetas who indeed contacted the installer and told he needed to issue 1 , I felt a little bad as I had jumped the gun and it was just the case that he hadn't done his weekly paperwork for his installs and came round and handed me the certificate and asked if I was happy with the install.

[Hunter7]

2 hours ago, TonyT said:

What make is the stove pipe?

then you can find out the manufacturer instructions and have 100% accurate info regarding sealing

No mention of the pipe manufacturer, but its a standard steel, single skinned pipe. Any attempt to contact him is falling on deaf ears. 

[TonyT]

I get that, but doing your on detective work into the materials fitted will give manufacturers info, and then let you know how to rectify the problem

[Hunter7]

If the stove pipe is from the same place as the rest of the kit came from, its MiFlue or similar.

 

Looking at the install manual, it clearly states "it is essential that all connections between the stove and chimney flue are sealed and made airtight"

 

Seems clear enough to me and this is the manual he was looking at whilst installing it! 

 

I'll be letting HETAS deal with it now and maybe I'll visit him with a baseball bat one night.

[Hunter7]

Hetas gave him 10 days to get back to me, but he didn't bother until this evening, a day late in my book.

 

He had the nerve to tell me that the install was safe and not fitting a CO alarm was just a 'technicality'. Not really a 'technicality', in fact it is a 'necessity' according to Hetas.

 

He asked to come back and fit one, which I have neither denied or accepted.

 

He told me that if I didn't let him fit an alarm, he would have to give me a notice that the install was "unsafe".  It escapes his attention that the install has not changed since he did it on 25th May, so if it is unsafe now, it was unsafe then.

 

He denies any knowledge of damaging the hearth, of course, despite me telling him at the time.

 

His refusal to provide me with an invoice was because he "had given me a verbal quote instead." Maybe HMRC would view it differently?

 

In essence, this bloke is a cowboy and a fraudster, so I will be following up with the necessary steps.

[ETC]

Did you make a BC application?

[Hunter7]

Building Control? Why.?

[TonyT]

Cause if you aren’t using hetas installer you can go down the self install route  and get building control to sign off at appropriate fee.

 

if you have don’t the bulk of the work as you say finishing it off properly shouldn’t be a problem

[Hunter7]

A Hetas installer has been paid to do the job, but he failed to do it properly, as explained.

Why would I want to pay BC another load of money....to do what?

[TonyT]

Just like gas and electrical to get a certificate that ‘proves’ it safe.

 

helpful for insurers, reselling etc

 

 

 

[Hunter7]

I have the Hetas certificate proving its 'safe'.  That's why it is so daft that the person that left it unsafe ( but signed it off as safe) feels he can issue a notice to say its not.

[TonyT]

Have you paid him?

[ETC]

1 hour ago, Hunter7 said:

Building Control? Why.?

You might want to check if you need to make a BC application - you do in my jurisdiction.

[Hunter7]

9 hours ago, TonyT said:

Have you paid him?

I paid him 50% deposit so he could continue with the job, but he is now refusing to give me an invoice. £200 of which was for doing the brickwork and rendering....which he didn't do.

Then he couldn't provide the Stove we had agreed on so told me to source my own and he would fit it. ( 'fitting it' comprised damaging my new granite hearth and plonking a stove pipe in place.)

Edited June 14, 2023 by Hunter7

[Hunter7]

8 hours ago, ETC said:

You might want to check if you need to make a BC application - you do in my jurisdiction.

No need here.

[saveasteading]

The bco would mostly want a hetas certificate do you are prob OK once you get that.....before they strike him off.

 

Sounds likea chancer trying out all the well tested excuses.j

Hmrc is probably more of an issue to him than hetas as they like to pick on the little guys for an easy return  and you won't be the first where he hasn't issued an invoice so the cost to him could be huge.

[TonyT]

Probably a letter to him advising that you are withholding payment due to poor workmanship, variation from original agreement and damage to property.

 

offer to let him complete works at a future date specified and the works checked by an independent third party

 

this more than anything from stopping him taking you to court ( some/ poor installers have no shame) 

 

then when he doesn’t meet these agreed terms find someone reputable to carry our remedial works and issue new certificate