TF company - when to engage?

[Dunc]

I'm dithering between getting a house desing via an architect, or going with a TF company who will do design&supply.

 

I'm nervous about going with desing&supply basically around cost: if we get a design done with TF company A, expecting to use them for supply&erect, how do I then check that their cost for the supply portion is going to be reasonable? While of course I can set a maximum budget for them, presumably they'll simply aim to charge that amount. However, asking them to pause after the design stage to allow getting a quote from TF Company B seems, well, rude.

 

If I go via an architect for design, what input and when in the process would be best from a TF company to ensure efficiency in buildability (e.g. what are their standard panel sizes, joist spans...). I'm guessing that without an intial design most TF companies won't be interested in a conversation?

[Kelvin]

It’s not a straightforward decision. In my experience of one timber kit company we were 90% into the process before I got the final price which was £10k higher than their estimate 6 months earlier which was £20k higher than their initial finger in the air estimate. If you get it architect designed and keep it straightforward and minimise steelwork then you have more build routes available to you. 
 

Most timber kit companies will have a selection of standard designs so if your plan is to build something similar they should be able to give you a reasonable idea of cost. Ours was £30k dearer because we made it bigger by 35m² and changed all the windows to 3G. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Kelvin

[Shaun McD]

My own personal experience, I am glad we went through an architect for design. We tried to get input from down selected TF companies to help on a redesign, but in reality, its the big obvious things that hit the pocket hard, not really having walls not in multiples of 4/600mm etc. Roof layout, projections, curves, non standard heights, large spans without the ability to support will all cost, and you just find a balance between budget v design.

Some TF companies supply "kit" houses of course, which come in set sizes/layouts, but in our experience, they do not come in with the cost saving they should, so a sensible design with a custom home TF company will not be exponentially more expensive, but has the potential to be much better suited for your needs.

What I also liked with having our own architect is the additional safety of independent certification. I spoke with a few TF companies who do their engineering "in house", which has the benefit of small cost saving, but would worry me of what happens if the company goes under, or how do they handle the difficult over engineering conversations. Our chosen TF company has a completely external engineering firm work on all structural calculations, and it is their insurance on the line etc. The allows me to have an independent relationship with the engineering firm to ask my own questions etc. and personally gives me much more comfort, separation of church and state!

My advice would be to work with an architect, be up front that the intended construction is TF, advise on budget etc. and work out the main design. Once that is complete, engage multiple TF companies to discuss their approach to structure, insulation, air tightness, working with other trades etc. and get your quotes from the companies you like.  

[Thorfun]

get an architect to design the house you want and then send the plans to as many TF companies as you wish to get quotes from. even if it costs a little more it gives you the flexibility to find a company you want to use.

[Iceverge]

Plus one. 

 

Just avoid any complex designs. Every corner adds £10k they say. 

 

Likewise a roof gets massively more expensive the more complex it gets.

 

Try not to let the architect do the thing where they stretch the ground floor plan to be fatter than the upstairs. This means that you have to breach the thermal envelope to support the first floor walls and it's expensive to get right thermally. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dunc]

Thanks all for the thoughts! Reassuing. I'm guessing one architect who spent a good 10 mintues stressing "we really understand TF sizing so will make an efficient design to manufacture" was perhaps slightly over-selling.

All I want is a basic rectangular form...but I guess to keep £10k corners to a minimum we could go for a circle 😂

[Thorfun]

the TF company 'should' take your architects design and make a TF out of it. they'll be responsible for the load calculations and layout of the panels etc. at least that's how it worked for us.

[Kelvin]

If you all you want is a basic rectangular form then investigate all the timber kit companies standard designs. The longhouse/barn style is exactly that and a very common design. No need for an architect, definitely not at x% of build cost anyway. 

[saveasteading]

20 minutes ago, Dunc said:

was perhaps slightly over-selling.

Perhaps not. Some would pay no attention to dimensions, shapes and spans. 

[Papillon]

I’ve worked for both as an architect and in timber frame.

firstly don’t bother with their catalogue designs, I’ve looked at the main ones from all the companies and they are outdated and the new ones are a bit meh.

 

I’d get an architect (or a designer with skills) for the concept and then the timber frame company for the rest. Make sure you disengage the architect and you’re happy with the layout. Don’t worry if it’s not perfectly to scale with the wall thicknesses etc, just get the rooms and elevations looking nice. Don’t spend more than 2k. 

 

The planning and design phase from a timber frame company is actually a bargain, but they have low creativity or flair in their design, they are usually technicians so ymmv. Ask for a discount as you have the design already. 
 

Most TF companies are using ~£2000 per M2 build cost (excluding land, but including foundations) to price. You can ring them up and ask what their general rule is and give the architect a floor area to work to. That way your design is buildable. 
 

this is assuming you have a plot with some potential already. I’d get a planning consultant to assess the site (from the timber frame company) for free, first.