Furnace Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 The location with the PAH is in an area due to be hard standing/parking. The environmental report suggested an option of 'subject to Regulatory approval, existing vs proposed site levels and proposed development design layout it may be acceptable to cap this unsuitable Made Ground beneath hardstanding to help break exposure pathways, although potential future risks would require management if this material is to remain on site it feels like the sort of approach used to repurpose an ex-steelworks than a rural barn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 47 minutes ago, Furnace said: feels like the sort of approach used to repurpose an ex-steelworks than a rural barn. Yes. Farms are messy places though, diesel, chemicals etc spilled for decades....but nobody makes a farmer clean it up. The danger is if you grew veg there or children played on the area. A client once had a survey showing arsenic in the ground and a need for more surveys.. I knew this would be an old treated fence post, and so it proved. Re oils you prob just have to say that you are not removing any earth, and capping it....as recommended by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 13, 2023 Author Share Posted March 13, 2023 7 hours ago, saveasteading said: Re oils you prob just have to say that you are not removing any earth, and capping it....as recommended by them That sounds simpler than the expense of further WAC testing and disposal. I'm hoping not to have any soil removed from site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 Thought I'd post a dispiriting update. I applied to the Natural England District Level Licensing Scheme for a Compensation Payment quote. £570 +VAT for the enquiry. £2754.40 +VAT for the Compensation Payment £690 (no VAT!) for the Licence Total £4679.28 This is the cost due to 11meters of hedging being removed because of an access issue. The Compensation Payment is calculated based on the number of ponds being impacted. The ecology report states that the groundworks area affects 6 ponds. NE assesses this by reference to the Red Line Boundary of the site and all ponds within a 250m buffer zone around it. LPA require the RLB to include access to the site, and since my plot (highlighted in yellow) is 600m down a drive to the main highway, it affects 14 ponds. I've challenged Natural England to review this and have been rebuffed twice. I'm suitably dispirited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, Furnace said: .... I'm suitably dispirited. And I'm outraged for you. Not one newt, - not a single one - will benefit from your payment. Instead contributions will be made to ecologists mortgages. My whole GCN exercise cost about £6k all in. And - this I hope is a smile inducer for you - it was our children who 35 years ago went round with buckets and 'stole' GCNs from other local ponds and put them in 'ours'. Gave them names, looked after the 'nests' - the works. 'Nest' = a single blade of grass snapped, bent over, both halves stuck together to protect the eggs. I've recently been trying to reclaim their pocket money. Not going too well that. Have you tried suggesting you could create a hibernacular as compensation? We made three or four (out of waste-wood and rubble). NE liked that .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbeard Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 @Furnace, I am sure you have 'been here' already (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/natural-england/about/complaints-procedure) but there is at least an escalation path (however much one might feel that it might be made of fudge and long grass). How do you get on with your MP?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said: And I'm outraged for you. Solidarity in adversity. I'm particularly frustrated since I donated 3 ponds elsewhere on the farm to the NE restoration scheme. Breakdown of the £17,215 cost of a replacement pond is attached.NEpond costs.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 54 minutes ago, Redbeard said: How do you get on with your MP?! I hope he's got better things to do, but I may well raise a complaint at the lower level if my fortitude survives the interaction with the environmental consultant who wishes to take up residence to supervise all ground works. Including installing an orange geotextile membrane and replacing all top soil in areas that tested negative for contamination 'just in case'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 Nothing ventured...... Tune in next week for another riveting episode... NEcomplaint_text.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 If you don't mind me saying, I think your letter needs a statement of your complaint at the start. Unreasonable, disproportionate, and pointless because no newts will be protected. Then how you already made a pond, which is more than recompense. (It's a shame your newts didn't have names.) And that this is 11m of an x m hedge. You now offer a.....newtorium or whatever, which will help newts in your area whereas cash is of no use to them, but nice for consultants. And what you want is..y Would I be right in suspecting that your planning agent suggested these consultants? Could be too close. Tried a chat with the ones I suggested in the pm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, saveasteading said: Would I be right in suspecting that your planning agent suggested these consultants? Could be too close. It was a recommendation, however there were no self-serving suggestions for "follow on" work so I don't feel led up a garden path in this instance. 16 minutes ago, saveasteading said: Tried a chat with the ones I suggested in the pm? I haven't spoken with the ones you mentioned. I confess I feel out of my depth in saying "I've had the result of a Preliminary Ecological Appraisal, and the conclusion is going to cost me £4.5k. Can you suggest an alternative?". I pushed back at the current report author with suggestions of "Is there another way we can present this to better serve the newts' interests?" and got a "There is an impact and that's how it must be remedied" response. There only really seem to be two ways to deal with it. One is "find" an ecological consultant who agrees it's all madness and declares there's no impact. The other is to follow the mitigation rules, but argue that they're inappropriate for this development and try to minimise them. I might get it down to £2.5k if they agree with my approach. I've never done this before so am completely open to suggestions and advice - it's my first rodeo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 Kafka had it easy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Yes you wonder how rude you dare to be. I bet you wish this hedge had died mysteriously last year. There has to be another way that it would be ridiculous to argue against. I don't think there is any 'closed shop' so try the competition. Just a phone call, and nothing to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 On 17/03/2023 at 16:56, Furnace said: Kafka had it easy... In part because he used a self-indulgent (German) written style: guaranteed to piss readers off. Mercifully absent in your writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 11 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: Mercifully absent in your writing I generally find writing allows my innate irritation at petits fonctionnaires to be largely filtered out. I aim any frustration-laden verbal ranting for my (German) squeeze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 From Natural England: Thank you for completing Natural England's complaint form received by the Complaint Resolution Team on 17 March 2023 regarding you [sic] Great Crested Newt and District Level Licencing. We take all customer complaints seriously and are committed to fully investigating any issues you have raised. We will aim to provide you with a full Tier 1 response by 11th April. If our i nvestigation [sic] is taking longer than expected, we will notify you and provide you with an update. Details of our complaint's [sic] procedure can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/natural-england/about/complaints-procedure. I'm going to lodge my planning application, and if the DLL licence needs to be implemented I'll continue arguing the case for the methodology to be changed. I'll update the thread when appropriate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 11 hours ago, Furnace said: ... I aim any frustration-laden verbal ranting for my (German) squeeze. Na denn ran an die Sache: auf Deutsch natürlich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 3 hours ago, ToughButterCup said: Na denn ran an die Sache: auf Deutsch natürlich. Like identical twins, and theatre dwarfs, bilingual people are not to be trusted. (Disclaimer: I am bilingual) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 >>> Great Crested Newts -District Level Licensing OMG newts are to be licensed now? Or do you need licences to keep them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 19/03/2023 at 20:10, Furnace said: From Natural England: Thank you for completing Natural England's complaint form received by the Complaint Resolution Team on 17 March 2023 regarding you [sic] Great Crested Newt and District Level Licencing. We take all customer complaints seriously and are committed to fully investigating any issues you have raised. We will aim to provide you with a full Tier 1 response by 11th April. If our i nvestigation [sic] is taking longer than expected, we will notify you and provide you with an update. Details of our complaint's [sic] procedure can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/natural-england/about/complaints-procedure. I'm going to lodge my planning application, and if the DLL licence needs to be implemented I'll continue arguing the case for the methodology to be changed. I'll update the thread when appropriate. Well well..... Following internal discussions we have agreed that we can exclude the access track from your impact assessment and issue an amended provisional IACPC based off the RLB for the site up until around where the track begins (see below). This would be a non-standard approach as would mean that your licence would not cover any effects your development may have on the track e.g. widening, etc. I believe this would result in there being 8 ponds within the 250m buffer instead of 14 and would bring costs to around £1,800. If this is agreeable for you please let us know and we shall issue you with a new certificate. Kind regards, A rare glimmer of hope in the self-builder's gloom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Well done for persisting. I’d have been tempted to stay with the Class Q option…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 12 hours ago, Jilly said: Well done for persisting Easyjet will confirm that I'm not known for giving up. 6 months of empty promises, 'lost' receipts and compensation forms, poor arithmetic etc. finally yielded a payment. I'm sure most (less irritating) people would have given up. I regard these small successes as (limited) evidence that the soul-destroying big machines of bureaucracy can sometimes be slowed, if not defeated. Vive la révolution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ambrose Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Nice - you've out-bureaucrated the bureaucrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Another edge of your seat update..... I pushed back even further... Thanks so much for your message and for discussing the matter internally - I really appreciate the flexible approach. I'd like to push back a little on the proposed methodology since it does have a material impact on the cost. Below is the boundary of the groundworks area shown in red (previously submitted as DLL_works.kml, attached) showing a 250m zone centred on the south-eastern corner. This zone excludes the two ponds to the west, and includes only the six ponds detailed in KB Ecology's report. I believe in this rural instance it is appropriate to consider only the 'works area', since the broader 'site area' is to be untouched. I look forward to hearing your thoughts. ...and received this reply After further discussion we have decided that in this instance we are happy to use the groundworks under the understanding that the wider site area will be untouched. It’s important to highlight that a GCN licence under DLL will only cover works within the groundworks area and any works outside of this will be at your own risk and not covered by the licence. I shall draft a new IACPC & issue it formally shortly, this will include a reference to the above along with an updated Output map for the groundworks area. That reduces the Compensation Payment from £3,305.28 to £908.98 I'll call it a day at that. Edited March 30, 2023 by Furnace added map 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Settle for that. Everyone happy. But this is what your newt consultant should have done for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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