Shaun McD Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Hi all, Will have a new build in Ramelton, Co. Donegal, finding it difficult to find installers in region, or would travel. I know TimberFrame Ireland install, but since we are not using them for our TF, not sure if I want that setup! I have also heard mixed things about the company, so looking for companies willing to do the job stand alone, or packaged with none TF related work. Any recommendations or even nice UK based folk who want a working holiday???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Are you using the Kore System? If so they will have a local Sales Rep and he'll have contacts for companies he could point you at and drop some names you can contact. You'll need a Structural Engineer to do the design and feed back to Kore, 4-10 weeks, 2 weeks to manufacture, give yourself plenty of time to line this up. You'll need line loads from TF supplier. If using Castleforms / other try same although I've never got through to them on the phone. I'm going with separate groundworks / foundation installer, Kore system and separate TF supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, mike2016 said: Are you using the Kore System? If so they will have a local Sales Rep and he'll have contacts for companies he could point you at and drop some names you can contact. You'll need a Structural Engineer to do the design and feed back to Kore, 4-10 weeks, 2 weeks to manufacture, give yourself plenty of time to line this up. You'll need line loads from TF supplier. If using Castleforms / other try same although I've never got through to them on the phone. I'm going with separate groundworks / foundation installer, Kore system and separate TF supplier. I reached about to Kore, Castleforms to recommended installers, and also emailed TSD, who I think handle a lot of the structural designs for these. Ideally I would like to combine groundworks/foundation installer as a single point of failure, and since the ground makeup, levels etc. are very critical to get right. Would you mind sharing details on where about in ROI you are and who you plan to use? I have had local people saying they would not work on an insulated slab as they prefer to do strip etc. but also have people willing to take on the work without the experience, which seems quite risky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 TSD designed our insulated slab. they designed with Kore products but had no issues with us using a.n.other type of EPS as it's all the same as long it's the same compressive rating EPS! TSD were amazing to work with and are still answering questions i have over 2 years later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) An insulated slab is fairly simple tbh, and any ground works company with somebody that can follow instructions should be able to manage it. Edited February 24, 2023 by Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I'm in Dublin and hoping to use BrazPlant for groundworks and foundations combined. They preferred to do strip but have also done Raft in the past so I steered them that way. Everyone is more comfortable with Strip from quotes, was hard to get anyone doing raft. Wish MBC still built in ROI! The soil bearing tests are costing as much as the structural details for the raft, but I've a May deadline so can't wait for cheaper options. Everyone seems to be very busy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Conor said: An insulated slab is fairly simple tbh, and any ground works company with somebody that can follow instructions should be able to manage it. From what I have with some Donegal builders there is inches of tolerance in thinks, not mm. But yeah maybe been over cautious. Putting it to everyone at least, hoping to find one or two done before so they can have some input 12 minutes ago, mike2016 said: I'm in Dublin and hoping to use BrazPlant for groundworks and foundations combined. They preferred to do strip but have also done Raft in the past so I steered them that way. Everyone is more comfortable with Strip from quotes, was hard to get anyone doing raft. Wish MBC still built in ROI! The soil bearing tests are costing as much as the structural details for the raft, but I've a May deadline so can't wait for cheaper options. Everyone seems to be very busy! Yeah we are hoping to be starting construction drawings in a few weeks if we can have these decisions made. When you got prices did u see a big difference? We have a large single story footprint so we will have more rising walls, material for sub floor, concrete etc even before we have 270m2 odd of insulation and screed to sort so we thinking it may actually be the cheaper option to go insulated slab but finding it impossible to get any benchmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 I'd say insulated slab would be more, didn't get any clear quotes as headed for preferred method, that was just anecdotal talking to groundworks guy. Might close the gap after September when concrete levy kicks in.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 Kore have told me that a "competent" grounds work person can install, but just not keen on the idea of been someones first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I'd agree - if push comes to shove a strip foundation is fine. That's what my Architect specified as its cheaper and it still meets PHPP requirements with about 280mm of phonelic insulation in it. Although we can't get K107 in ROI any more from Kingspan last time I checked. Once it's down and performs you probably won't think about it again, focus on the things you can control and ensure you get a suitable floor U value using the foundation methods available to you. I'm going Raft as that option was open to me but Raft was my fallback.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 Yeah I think that will be our fallback. I will keep looking can I get someone locally or willing to travel but have a backup. I really like the idea of having the finished floor very level and done so early in the project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Shaun McD said: Kore have told me that a "competent" grounds work person can install, but just not keen on the idea of been someones first... our groundworkers did our insulated slab and didn't even use a precut system like Kore. they simply bought loads of sheets of the relevant EPS and cut to size on site. it was their first insulated slab and did it with no issues and with very good accuracy. i think an incompetent groundworker could probably do a pre-cut system like Kore! i saw our friends MBC build and the Kore insulation was basically like lego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackofAll Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shaun McD said: Kore have told me that a "competent" grounds work person can install, but just not keen on the idea of been someones first... Not sure if you saw the build your own home series on Rte recently but a lady from Cork, her partner and kid installed their's though they did have ground working crew in before. I recently got a quote from Kore and Castleforms with the latter being 2.5k more expensive. There are guys out there installing them. Circa 7k seems to be the going rate. Edited February 27, 2023 by JackofAll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, mike2016 said: I'd agree - if push comes to shove a strip foundation is fine. That's what my Architect specified as its cheaper and it still meets PHPP requirements with about 280mm of phonelic insulation in it. Although we can't get K107 in ROI any more from Kingspan last time I checked. Once it's down and performs you probably won't think about it again, focus on the things you can control and ensure you get a suitable floor U value using the foundation methods available to you. I'm going Raft as that option was open to me but Raft was my fallback.... a few comments... i can't believe that 280mm Phenolic insulation on strip foundations with (i presume block and beam?) is cheaper than 300mm of EPS with a poured slab! Also, 280mm PIR (let alone phenolic) is overkill in my opinion. you get diminishing returns for thicker insulation and 300mm EPS is enough to satisfy Passive House critera. (note: i've not performed the calculations for 280mm phenolic insulation vs 300mm EPS with regards to U-value.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, JackofAll said: Not sure if you saw the build your own home series on Rte recently but a lady from Cork, her partner and kid installed their's though they did have ground working crew in before. I recently got a quote from Kore and Castleforms with the latter being 2.5k more expensive. There are guys out there installing them. Circa 7k seems to be the going rate. I have not seen this so will give it a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 And I'm going 400mm Silver EPS - I guess the house will float if we ever flood....!! Chasing 0.07 floor U values.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 You could easily get a 100mm pir upstand beside a 300mm EPS and 100mm concrete slab with a strip foundation. This gives an external psi value of -0.06W/mK. Better than the Passivhaus requirement of 0.01 W/mK. In fact with an insulated raft it would be tricky to join all the insulation together as your PIR is inboard of the loadbearing stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 42 minutes ago, Iceverge said: You could easily get a 100mm pir upstand beside a 300mm EPS and 100mm concrete slab with a strip foundation. This gives an external psi value of -0.06W/mK. Better than the Passivhaus requirement of 0.01 W/mK. In fact with an insulated raft it would be tricky to join all the insulation together as your PIR is inboard of the loadbearing stud. Sorry if this is a very naive question but is eps different than the normal foil backed boards by Kingspan etc? Is it just that you need a greater depth of eps than pir/put (if that's what they are called) to achieve the same u value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike2016 Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 You'll see EPS (U 0.37) used to package some heavy electronic items, it's very dense and doesn't dent easily, stands up well to compression. PIR (U 0.22) uses a foam with foil either side and is very brittle, dents easily and while it has a better U Value wouldn't be my choice to withstand 150mm of poured concrete! And as depth is just the cost of excavating and muckaway, digging a little deeper makes getting the required U value achievable. I've used PIR in my two metal shed floors but with plywood over it. They all have their use cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, mike2016 said: You'll see EPS (U 0.37) used to package some heavy electronic items, it's very dense and doesn't dent easily, stands up well to compression. PIR (U 0.22) uses a foam with foil either side and is very brittle, dents easily and while it has a better U Value wouldn't be my choice to withstand 150mm of poured concrete! And as depth is just the cost of excavating and muckaway, digging a little deeper makes getting the required U value achievable. I've used PIR in my two metal shed floors but with plywood over it. They all have their use cases. Ok so is just a thickness thing? Use 300mm eps instead of 150mm pir? Cost wise is eps cheaper to get the same u value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, Shaun McD said: Ok so is just a thickness thing? Use 300mm eps instead of 150mm pir? Cost wise is eps cheaper to get the same u value? Yes, plus is nicer to work with and has much higher load bearing capacity - remember on an insulated raft the insulation has to take the loadings from the entire building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Conor said: Yes, plus is nicer to work with and has much higher load bearing capacity - remember on an insulated raft the insulation has to take the loadings from the entire building. Great to know, had no idea about this, makes perfect sense but was always thinking it would be a PIR job. Thank you all for the input! On a slightly related note, has anyone used these door thresholds to make life simpler? https://passivesills.com/door-threshold/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 32 minutes ago, Shaun McD said: Great to know, had no idea about this, makes perfect sense but was always thinking it would be a PIR job. Thank you all for the input! On a slightly related note, has anyone used these door thresholds to make life simpler? https://passivesills.com/door-threshold/ No, but would have saved me HOURS messing around with blocks of compactfoam. Wouldn't expect them to be cheap tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 On 24/02/2023 at 16:05, Shaun McD said: Hi all, Will have a new build in Ramelton, Co. Donegal, finding it difficult to find installers in region, or would travel. Our KORE slab is scheduled to be installed in April. The installer is I think from Co. Donegal and recommended by KORE. The builder's groundworks team will be doing the initial excavation works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun McD Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr Blobby said: Our KORE slab is scheduled to be installed in April. The installer is I think from Co. Donegal and recommended by KORE. The builder's groundworks team will be doing the initial excavation works. Thanks, would you mind sharing contact details? TBH the last few days have me questioning this again now, if it will be more expensive to install an insulated found, and if it is pretty straight forward to get to similar level of thermal performance with a strip, and be cheaper, then think strip will win out, but be good to talk to a few installers still to get a more concrete idea on price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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