45 degree rule

[Archer]

Hello all. 

 

Does anyone have any experience with the 45 degree rule in planning? Basically we are seeking permission for a single storey, 3 m x 4m kitchen extension. There is no daylight or sunlight issues because our neighbour (who doesn't object to our proposals) is directly to the south of our property. Imagine a terrace of houses, but ours is actually a flat hence not covered under permitted development rights and we are planning to build right up to the boundary. 

 

The planner wants to fail the application for not complying with the 45 degree rule - we are fine in the vertical plane but not in the horizontal. The offending window has no loss of daylight and basically stops development unless we can make a case... 

 

A quick search online seems to think that the 45 degree rule is outdated and more sophistication should be applied through BRE 209 Site Layout Planning for Daylight & Sunlight. We'd like to avoid employing a daylight consultant if possible because funds are already. tight. 

 

Any other ideas?

[MikeSharp01]

Right to light is a bit of a mine field but as I understand it there are a couple of simple tests that will allow you to see if you have a problem and might need to go further. 1. Has your neighbour earned any right to light? I think - check this, that they have to have lived there for 20 years to get it. 2. The nature of the room to which the window refers so only habitable rooms have a right to light. The definition of habitable needs looking up. 3. Does the room have any other windows which are unaffected? If yes then you may be able to argue your case with the planners.  4. Is there a tall boundary wall, over 2m, between you and them if so you might be able to argue for work on a single story as the window is already blocked by the wall.

 

If you do infringe a right to light when / if it arrives at court the compension is worked out using a formula which values the loss of amenity cauzed.  So how much less light they get across a normal year. You can settle this between you out of court but will need it properly notorised. 

 

Hope that helps.

[jack]

"Right to light" is not the same as the 45 degree rule. 

 

As I understand it, for most councils the 45 degree rule is a starting point for presumption of acceptable sightlines. It isn't about whether you stop someone getting sunlight, it's also about what they can see from their windows.  

 

Your council should have guidelines on their website about how they deal with this sort of thing. If you can't find it, I'd ask the planning officer to direct you to it or provide a copy.

 

Incidentally, being directly north of someone means you'll likely be blocking some morning and evening sun through the summer, given that even in the south of the UK the sun rises around 45 degrees north of east and sets around 45 degrees north of west. 

 

[Temp]

The Right to Light Act can even trump planning permission but as I understand it you would have to quite severely reduce light levels in the affected room before it was a problem. The 45 degree rule is just a local planning policy.

 

However find out if the planners actually have a written policy that mentions the 45 degree rule. If it does the you will find it harder to win at appeal. If not then I would press on and go to appeal if it's refused.

[Archer]

Hello all, 

 

Thanks for your advice and knowledge as always. Jack, that's interesting, I hadn't realised that to be honest although it makes sense. We won't actually be taking any daylight or "visible sky component" (VSC) either because the extension side wall is the same size as the existing fence and then pitches up towards the roof ridge line at 45 degrees. The neighbour is ok with it and has been incredibly accommodating, even allowing us to block up an airbrick to the bedroom. 

 

Anyway, long story short - the planners seem to have accepted our application with no changes! Very pleased. We haven't got the final written confirmation yet but it seems they were mainly concerned about the extension height  we have addressed by illustrating the 45 degree line and keeping to a max 3m width out from the existing building. They seemed happy enough with this, possibly because other maisonettes on the road have had similar work done (London...)

 

So good news - crashing on with a bunch of other issues now in what must be the most fiddly 3m extension possible. Other items we are progressing;  purchasing our freehold to consent works; party wall; fire strategy for open plan 3 storey building; flood plane issues (SIPS are not recommended - looking at MGO over OSB for sheathing board...). 

[Archer]

Should have added Jack - no Right to Light issues. Good thing too because that would be hugely costly and a definite scheme killer

[le-cerveau]

Bit late but I had a similar issue, but used the 45 degree rule (that doesn't exist) to show how my house wasn't overbearing, overshadowing and overlooking.  See:

 

[hjwhite91]

@Archer

Would you mind letting me know how you got on?

We are looking to do a similar project - extending our 3 storey townhouse, and hoping for open plan downstairs, but facing potential barriers with (a) fire regs about staircase being open to kitchen area, and (b) the neighbouring windows being quite close to the boundary, hence intruding on the 45 degree rule. Currently weighing up whether or not to have a bash at getting planning for it, but don't want to if it's unlikely to get through!

I'd love to see how your project turned out :)

[Archer]

On 06/05/2021 at 12:18, hjwhite91 said:

@Archer

Would you mind letting me know how you got on?

We are looking to do a similar project - extending our 3 storey townhouse, and hoping for open plan downstairs, but facing potential barriers with (a) fire regs about staircase being open to kitchen area, and (b) the neighbouring windows being quite close to the boundary, hence intruding on the 45 degree rule. Currently weighing up whether or not to have a bash at getting planning for it, but don't want to if it's unlikely to get through!

I'd love to see how your project turned out

 

Well... we got on, eventually and finished the extension! Really pleased now all that the work is done, but it was a stressful year. We had big problems with our builder, also with leaks into the flat below and various other things. So pleased with the end result though and we learned a lot by doing lots ourself and commissioning trades after the builder disappeared. 

 

For your questions, I can't say too much more than my original post on the 45 degree rule. I don't think the extension ever complied with it because it projects 3m out, less than a metre from a bedroom window. But the neighbours didn't mind and it ultimately didn't change much in reality because the wall matched the fence height before pitching upwards. The planners visited the property and ok'd it after our architect wrote to them. I think it really helps if you're neighbours are onboard with proposals so definitely consult with them early. 

 

We learned that there are usually solutions to the issues you come across. Our kitchen shared the open plan fire issue that you've described above. There are various  possible solutions to this - auto misting systems; fire doors on magnetic closers or hidden fire curtains for larger areas. Several maisonettes in our area have the same layout and BCO wasn't that concerned about the issue (or dedicated escape windows for that matter either). We stressed about it lots and even followed up with emails but in the end it just got waived through. 

 

Good luck if you move forward with it all