Conversion no longer convertible?

[Drellingore]

Has anyone got any experience of a situation where conversion in principle has been established for a barn, but where the barn has deteriorated in condition since then and now requires too much work to be considered a conversion?

 

We may be in the position of having bought a plot with planning permission granted, based on a structural survey performed a couple of years before we bought the site. We wanted to change the scheme, and as such made a new planning application with a new structural survey. This new structural survey appears to recommend more of a 'take down and put back up' approach, which we didn't consider a problem. There are noises from the heritage officer that this wouldn't constitute a conversion any more, which was a fundamental requirement of the original principle being established.

 

Are there many examples of such a thing happening, and planning being sympathetic to the fact the building has deteriorated and therefore reconstruction being necessary? Or is it universally the case that they'll consider the window of opportunity not closed, condemning the building to slowly decay with no prospect of conversion?

[IanR]

54 minutes ago, Drellingore said:

There are noises from the heritage officer that this wouldn't constitute a conversion any more, which was a fundamental requirement of the original principle being established.

 

Are there many examples of such a thing happening, and planning being sympathetic to the fact the building has deteriorated and therefore reconstruction being necessary? Or is it universally the case that they'll consider the window of opportunity not closed, condemning the building to slowly decay with no prospect of conversion?

 

The heritage/conservation Officer is unfortunately entirely correct. Your current planning relies on the conversion of the existing buildings, which planning rules require them to be Structurally capable of conversion.

 

There is no route to planning for a new build by arguing the existing buildings are not structurally capable of conversion. If that's what you have argued and have provided evidence to the LPA it's likely you are already stuffed. I'd withdraw your application and consider your next steps carefully. You may need to apply for a Certificate of Lawful Development, to check if the LPA still accepts your original planning is still valid.

 

You are likely to need a new Structural Survey which confirms its structurally sound, but some how doesn't contradict the new survey you just shared with the LPA.

Edited February 2, 2023 by IanR

[Mr Punter]

If this is a class q PD conversion you need to retain the structure.  I think it may also be time limited for completion, so check this as well.

[ToughButterCup]

Here is an excellent resource for you to read by Martin Goodhall. Unfortunately he has just retired.

Scroll down the left hand side and you'll see links to the series on Barn Conversions.

He has a very readable written style - laced with the odd flash of wry humour.

[Temp]

In some cases a building is in such poor condition that it makes financial sense to knock it down and rebuild but as yo have discovered the planners treat that as a new build in the countryside which is against policy.

 

You need to tread carefully and not let the building get so bad that it is incapable of being converted. If necessary carry out repairs but only repairs and get a new survey being careful to brief the surveyor.

 

Ideally you want to be in a position where you have planning permission to convert it and then put in another application to knock down and rebuild with something that looks near identical. That would be very hard to refuse (at appeal if necessary) as the end result of both would be the same.

 

If it's too bad to convert then you don't have anything to bargain with. For the planners it becomes a choice between no house and a new house.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Countryfile]

@Drellingore....what happened in the end? Did you build or go for full planning?  I'm finding it difficult where some authorities are flexible and others are not. Did you succeed?

[Drellingore]

Sorry @Countryfile - I haven't checked in here for ages.

 

Our initial proposal to make pretty drastic changes to the barn was rejected at committee on heritage grounds.

 

The latest structural survey we've had done (third one now?) is more optimistic, and we've gone through every single timber assessing its heritage and structural value. We're hoping to get a new application submitted in the next month or two, but we've got a drainage challenge now.

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, Drellingore said:

The latest structural survey we've had done (third one now?) is more optimistic

Good to see they haven't beaten you yet 😁.