Post and beam Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Afternoon guys While researching Heat pumps this afternoon and trying to justify the quote i have been given for a Nibe I came across a review online. The 10 best heat pumps 2023. The bosch CS7001iW came out on top. Now, i have nothing to say about this other than i have not heard them mentioned on this forum at all either good or bad. To be honest did not even know they made heat pumps. Has anyone fitted one? What are they like Regards keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 That’s interesting Are they s similar price to Mitsubishi and other more well known makes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) Bosch are Usually some rebranded European offering in my experience. I’d stick with something you can get parts and support for local to you. The control system is more important than the box outside. Edited January 18, 2023 by HughF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, HughF said: Bosch are Usually some rebranded European offering in my experience. I’d stick with something you can get parts and support for local to you. The control system is more important than the box outside. Not saying i am going to use one at all. Just interested that something can top a poll and be invisible on a large forum like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, Post and beam said: Not saying i am going to use one at all. Just interested that something can top a poll and be invisible on a large forum like this. Pay enough money to the people running the poll and you can get to the top 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, HughF said: Pay enough money to the people running the poll and you can get to the top 🤣 Well yes, exactly. The same as reviews of just about any product, when advertising spend comes into play. Think virtually any car or bike magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Post and beam said: While researching Heat pumps this afternoon and trying to justify the quote i have been given for a Nibe Can I ask what price you've been quoted for which model? Eco EastAnglia fitted a F2040-12, Cooling module, SMO40, MODBus module, 500l Nibe Cylinder, 200l Buffer, all copper and brass, HW recirc pump + another pump to the MVHR wet duct heater/cooler for £11.5K, which I thought was a reasonable price. First class install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 I looked and you have to an internal and external unit, even on the monobloc, to get them to work. The monobloc has most of its electronics within the indoor unit. The prices gets very large very quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 18/01/2023 at 18:41, IanR said: Can I ask what price you've been quoted for which model? Eco EastAnglia fitted a F2040-12, Cooling module, SMO40, MODBus module, 500l Nibe Cylinder, 200l Buffer, all copper and brass, HW recirc pump + another pump to the MVHR wet duct heater/cooler for £11.5K, which I thought was a reasonable price. First class install. Yes you can, its the Nibe 2040-12 kw @ £12800+Vat I aint payin that by the way ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Full supply list as below. Fitting not included. 1 NIBE F2040-12 (typically capable of heating a property with 10kW heat loss at design operating conditions, in compliance with MCS standards) air source heat pump kit, charge pump, and associated fittings. 1 Air source heat pump system to provide space heating and domestic hot water 1 100 litre (type C) buffer box assembly with four tappings and one immersion tapping, with immersion heater (Please note: DHW cylinders, up to maximum of 300l (due to weight), are stackable on the buffer box) 1 EnergyPro® 400 litre unvented stainless steel HP cylinder for use with NIBE ASHP, including fittings and G3 kit. (Please note that the cylinder warranty does not cover private water supplies, e.g. boreholes. Please speak to your Account Manager if this required.) 1 Electric metering kit for one single phase heat pump and two additional immersion heaters 1 Includes delivery of heat pump and tank by carrier to UK mainland only 1 Heat pump design and support package. This includes the system design, comprehensive handover pack, an on-site commissioning visit from a Nu-Heat Engineer where they will talk you/your customer through the system, and MCS certification. We will also register the heat pump for a parts and labour warranty. Please note the electrician and plumber installing the system will need to sign a sub-contract agreement before any installation work commences and adhere to MCS and RECC standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Post and beam said: Yes you can, its the Nibe 2040-12 kw @ £12800+Vat I aint payin that by the way Yep, that's a bit steep, and I don't believe you get the Nibe 7 year warranty unless it's fitted by an Approved installer. Eco EastAnglia are based in Colchester - pretty sure they cover your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 Funny thing is, i watched a youtube video of theirs that is less than 2 months old. It said a typical install for a new buildhouse of about my size would be about £11500 all in. Installed and VAT added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 31 minutes ago, IanR said: Yep, that's a bit steep, and I don't believe you get the Nibe 7 year warranty unless it's fitted by an Approved installer. Eco EastAnglia are based in Colchester - pretty sure they cover your area. Had a look on their site, i will call them in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 49 minutes ago, Post and beam said: buffer box assembly with four tappings and one immersion tapping That is the least efficient way to plumb a buffer for a heat pump as the mixing within the buffer requires the heat pump to operate at a higher temperature than it would otherwise. Better to use the same volume and pipe as a volumiser or as a two port buffer. Or better still don't have one and make sure your zone sizes are big not small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 That does not speak well of my potential supplier for you to say one of their design elements is the least efficient way of doing that task Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 On 18/01/2023 at 17:49, HughF said: Bosch are Usually some rebranded European offering in my experience. I’d stick with something you can get parts and support for local to you. The control system is more important than the box outside. Its almost likely a Worcester Bosch unit and Bosch bought IVT who are one of Scandinavia’s oldest heat pump manufacturers. Very reliable, good sources of parts and excellent technical support from IVT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, PeterW said: Its almost likely a Worcester Bosch unit and Bosch bought IVT who are one of Scandinavia’s oldest heat pump manufacturers. Very reliable, good sources of parts and excellent technical support from IVT I knew it was someone like that whom they rebranded… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedRichards Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Post and beam said: That does not speak well of my potential supplier for you to say one of their design elements is the least efficient way of doing that task Not really. A 4-port buffer is absolutely the conventional way of plumbing a heat pump. I have been thinking about whether my 4-port buffer could be converted to two ports and I'm not sure it could. I have two zones. Suppose it's the middle of a cold night and the heat pump wants to defrost but my set-back is in operation and neither zone is calling for heat. Currently my ASHP would just turn on the internal pump and take some warm water out of the buffer. But with a 2-port buffer it could not do that because the closed zone valves would block any flow. Maybe @JohnMocan see an answer to this conundrum but I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 A 4 port in normal operation, all water goes in to and out of a buffer. A 2 port only the excess water flows through the buffer. The buffer is always open to the flow and return. If everything is closed downstream of the 2 port buffer all water flows through the buffer. Just the same as a 2 port. A 4 port hydraulic sepereration across buffer a 2 port no hydraulic sepereration. That's the main difference, plus less mixing. So in defrost the heat pump would just pull on your buffer volume in either case. A volumiser either sits in the flow or return circuit only. Does not give hydraulic sepereration. But in defrost the HP can use the stored volume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 To add a volumiser needs one open loop/radiator downstream of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReedRichards Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, JohnMo said: A 4 port in normal operation, all water goes in to and out of a buffer. A 2 port only the excess water flows through the buffer. The buffer is always open to the flow and return. If everything is closed downstream of the 2 port buffer all water flows through the buffer. Just the same as a 2 port. A 4 port hydraulic sepereration across buffer a 2 port no hydraulic sepereration. That's the main difference, plus less mixing. So in defrost the heat pump would just pull on your buffer volume in either case. A volumiser either sits in the flow or return circuit only. Does not give hydraulic sepereration. But in defrost the HP can use the stored volume Okay @JohnMo , I was probably confusing a volumiser with a 2-port buffer. Is the description here https://blog.heatspring.com/2-pipe-versus-4-pipe-buffer-tank-configurations/ an accurate representation of what you mean? It seems to rely on having the heating system pump flow rate broadly matched to the heat source internal pump flow rate. My 4-port buffer is underneath the DHW cylinder and integrated with it. It's "short and fat" and so would probably not achieve the stratification shown in the reference illustrations; how important is that? Edited January 20, 2023 by ReedRichards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Good representation of what I was trying to say. Short and fat a good place to dilute supply water with return water. Result hot water from HP going in and warm water going out. With a 4 port there should be no need to have the two pump flow rate matched. They are hydraulicaly seperates, so basically two systems meeting at the buffer. Look at a three port also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 On 18/01/2023 at 18:41, IanR said: Can I ask what price you've been quoted for which model? Eco EastAnglia fitted a F2040-12, Cooling module, SMO40, MODBus module, 500l Nibe Cylinder, 200l Buffer, all copper and brass, HW recirc pump + another pump to the MVHR wet duct heater/cooler for £11.5K, which I thought was a reasonable price. First class install. I spoke to these guys this morning. Rough estimate was not very close to your price. When did they install your kit please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughF Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 To save you all the research, buy a Samsung from midsummer wholesale, install it following their instructions (no buffer, pwm pump, Samsung controller as room stat) and you’ll have a good system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Post and beam said: I spoke to these guys this morning. Rough estimate was not very close to your price. When did they install your kit please? Mine was installed in 2017, but the market was even more more skewed then with RHI running which could provide double the grant the BUS scheme does. I'd noticed ASHP prices have not gone up since then (including Nibe), but perhaps everything else has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now