Garald Posted January 16, 2023 Share Posted January 16, 2023 Another chapter in the insulation saga! My ground-floor doors are metal security doors. Now, metal is of course a heat conductor, and I don't know what is inside the doors. So - what to do about this? My architect suggests adding fabric on the inside: https://www.futura-sciences.com/maison/comparatifs/meilleur-rideau-isolant-thermique-comparatif/ Does that really make a difference? Is it best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 17, 2023 Author Share Posted January 17, 2023 Follow-up question: The idea does seem to make sense - after all, why not treat a metal door as a bad window you don't mind not seeing through? But - does it make sense to have the back of the drape made of reflective material? Sure, it does, but: of the same kind of reflective material as an ordinary heat-insulating curtain? The heat radiated by the (dark grey) door won't be mainly in the visible-light spectrum. Should I focus mainly on having thick drapes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 First check that the door is not insulated. Metal doors are often filled with polystyrene. There is still a lot of conduction through the edges though. Fabric wont make much difference, but a heavy curtain could slow the flow of air. You could face the inner side with thin insulation. What is the context? Is that your door? It looks like a deep-freeze door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 Well, there are curtains that claim to be made out of reflective material: https://www.moondreamwebstore.fr/rideau-thermique-82 (let's call this option A) It seems to hard to get any precise information about them, though (R-value?). Or is any thick curtain likely to be about as good? Then I might as well get something with William-Morris patterns, so as to horrify my girlfriend. (I think that would go very well with the staircase, actually.) Option B: https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/madewithlovebyjulie Option 😄 https://society6.com/product/strawberry-thief-by-william-morris4674878_blackout-curtain?sku=s6-19490847p103a251v846a252v849 Is there any real reason to expect different performance from A, B and C? Which ones are more likely to make a real difference, and by how much? 6 hours ago, saveasteading said: First check that the door is not insulated. Metal doors are often filled with polystyrene. There is still a lot of conduction through the edges though. What is the context? Is that your door? It looks like a deep-freeze door. No, that's not my door - that's an example photo the architect sent me. The doors I am talking about are pretty standard grey metallic safety doors. They may have some insulation inside - I can't really tell. This is a place I bought recently; I got a bunch of receipts from the previous owners for the various improvements they did, but none of them mention doors, so I assume the doors were installed by the owners before them, and there's no realistic way of getting information from those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 A photo of the door would help. If from a recognised uk suppler it is probably insulated. Reflective surfaces send some energy back where it came from. Indoors though, not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) I just got back, but here is a picture we took some time ago. The door is presumably from a recognised *French* supplier. Edited January 18, 2023 by Garald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 That looks like an industrial door (for a warehouse). Probably made of flat steel folded to shape, with a polystyrene core. So insulated, but with a lot of cold bridges at the circumference and some through the structure. Does it feel cold? Covering the inside would be feasible but ugly. I stick with the big curtain solution. It will isolate the room air from the door and reduce air cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 4 hours ago, saveasteading said: Does it feel cold? Will check when I am back. I could ask the contractor. 4 hours ago, saveasteading said: Covering the inside would be feasible but ugly. Right, that's what the architect said. 4 hours ago, saveasteading said: I stick with the big curtain solution. It will isolate the room air from the door and reduce air cooling. So, should I go with one of the high-grade options, like https://www.moondreamwebstore.fr/rideau-thermique-82 (which are optimized for a windows or window-doors, anyhow)? Or would something like https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285026787569?hash=item425ceba0f1:g:qOsAAOSwh6tjZVF8 also be good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 They look good. For somd reason, curtains are half the price in britain. We use Dunelm Mill. So worth a look. I did, £48. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 37 minutes ago, saveasteading said: They look good. For somd reason, curtains are half the price in britain. We use Dunelm Mill. So worth a look. I did, £48. Well, British curtains are much less in the UK because Brexit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, saveasteading said: They look good. For somd reason, curtains are half the price in britain. We use Dunelm Mill. So worth a look. I did, £48. You mean you got thermal curtains for that price? Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Garald said: less in the UK because Brexit No. Nothing is cheaper for that reason. Curtains, bedding, timber, cheaper in uk Tiles, Wine, cheese, branded european goods, cheaper eu. Google dunelm mill thermal curtains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 Just now, saveasteading said: No. Nothing is cheaper for that reason. It's cheaper than in the continent (a statement that is logically equivalent to "it's more expensive than in the continent", which is what has really happened), not cheaper than before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 Is it enough for a curtain to be listed as a "blackout curtain", or should I get only items specifically listed as "thermal curtains"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 I don't know, but a blackout curtain will certainly be impervious to air, which I think is the main issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz_moose Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 my blackout curtains are basically just normal curtains with a plastic like material on the side facing the window. id look for some thick woolly fleece type curtains. you could try getting some spare sticks of wood and hanging a duvet cover up in front of the door and see if it makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 https://www.dunelm.com/product/jennings-natural-thermal-eyelet-curtains-1000143703 have a read of the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adsibob Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, saveasteading said: https://www.dunelm.com/product/jennings-natural-thermal-eyelet-curtains-1000143703 have a read of the comments. I have a pair of Dunelm curtains, I think they are similar to these... need to check. If so, they are fine as a draft barrier, but not really thick in the sense of any insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 9 hours ago, saveasteading said: That looks like an industrial door (for a warehouse). Probably made of flat steel folded to shape, with a polystyrene core. So insulated, but with a lot of cold bridges at the circumference and some through the structure. Does it feel cold? The architect confirms: they feel cold. She also doubts they are industrial-grade, in spite of their industrial appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Could you glue some ply faced PIR on to the internal face and get your joiner to make trims to make it look good? One slight (maybe overthinking it) worry I would have is getting tangled in the curtain in a fire escape situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, Iceverge said: Could you glue some ply faced PIR on to the internal face and get your joiner to make trims to make it look good? You mean, on the inside of the door, or outside? The latter option may not be super for the pyroparanoid. 26 minutes ago, Iceverge said: One slight (maybe overthinking it) worry I would have is getting tangled in the curtain in a fire escape situation. Hm, that's right. Otoh the curtain would hang flat against the door, and there would be no cord to get tangled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Garald said: You mean, on the inside of the door, or outside? The latter option may not be super for the pyroparanoid On the inside of the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garald Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share Posted January 18, 2023 Ah. Well, we haven't used PIR elsewhere, but it's not as if we were adamantly opposed to it (though we made a consistent choice not to use rockwool, other than in the roof, which will get raised at some point in the undefined future). I'll talk to the contractor - this seems to be the sort of thing he knows well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceverge Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Some cardboard (seriously) with the hollow core has pretty decent insulative values for the thickness of it if you wanted to try something cheap (free) to get a feel if it would work or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveasteading Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 If that door is new, then there will be a spec for it, including insulation. It might be better than nyou think. What freezing part of the world is it, very approximately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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