jayc89 Posted January 6, 2023 Posted January 6, 2023 Had our boiler moved yesterday, currently trying to rebalance the UFH as the flow meters were all shut during the move and every 10 minutes or so the flow on each loop keeps dropping to near zero. Is this likely to be air in the loops from the move?
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 Plumber that moved the boiler reckons it could be air trapped in the pump and is coming back out to take a look.
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Loops will all likely need to be manually purged again, as the flow rates from the UFH manifold are too low to shift stubborn air pockets. You ( or they ) can sit there and let it run whilst venting / refilling and repeating ( for ages ) or you ( or they ) can just purge with cold mains and be done in an hour. You just need to put a hose on the return manifold drain off point, remove all actuators temporarily, open the drain and allow that to run freely to outside, then open the filling loop on the boiler to allow masses of cold mains water in / through one loop / out to drain, and repeat for each loop ( doing ONLY one at a time ). You'll need to manually open each loop by pressing down gently on the pin ( that pin that gets depressed by the actuator ) to allow water to flow through. The installer should be familiar with all this.
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, PeterW said: Likely - does it have AAVs..? Unfortunately not. 12 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Loops will all likely need to be manually purged again, as the flow rates from the UFH manifold are too low to shift stubborn air pockets. You ( or they ) can sit there and let it run whilst venting / refilling and repeating ( for ages ) or you ( or they ) can just purge with cold mains and be done in an hour. You just need to put a hose on the return manifold drain off point, remove all actuators temporarily, open the drain and allow that to run freely to outside, then open the filling loop on the boiler to allow masses of cold mains water in / through one loop / out to drain, and repeat for each loop ( doing ONLY one at a time ). You'll need to manually open each loop by pressing down gently on the pin ( that pin that gets depressed by the actuator ) to allow water to flow through. The installer should be familiar with all this. It was a PITA the last time I had to do that. There's no drain near the manifold so I ended up running a hose pipe through the house, which SWMBO loved. Is the boiler fill loop still the best place to top up the inhibitor afterwards?
PeterW Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Just now, jayc89 said: Is the boiler fill loop still the best place to top up the inhibitor afterwards yes. 1
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Can you upload a pic of the manifold etc? You should defo have at least one bottle vent / AAV on this arrangement?! 25 minutes ago, jayc89 said: It was a PITA the last time I had to do that Doesn't matter. Likely needs doing again. Get it done, put this behind you, go to pub. Simples.
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Can you upload a pic of the manifold etc? You should defo have at least one bottle vent / AAV on this arrangement?! Doesn't matter. Likely needs doing again. Get it done, put this behind you, go to pub. Simples. Pub sounds good right now.
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) Lol. You would have cropped the bits I wanted to see on the far right, One more pic please. Ta. Edited January 9, 2023 by Nickfromwales 1
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 Here's a considerably cleaner shot I've just found on my phone 1
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) Thanks. You should remove the two manual vents and install automatic ones. https://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=821&gclid=CjwKCAiAk--dBhABEiwAchIwkWErcuPQ_EMthpOZ5eBY3VATYjXY3CtsfJKiW2tDL7MfCHybjLhgixoCUXoQAvD_BwE Will be a like for like swap, 5 mins work with an adjustable spanner and an old towel. And possibly some wellies, depending on your plumbing skills. Just turn off the red and blue taps as per your pic ( they seem to be in the closed position in that pic? ) and then you’ll only lose a pint or so of water when you remove the old vents. I’d expect this would solve the problem tbh. Worth trying that first for sure. Edited January 9, 2023 by Nickfromwales 1
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: Thanks. You should remove the two manual vents and install automatic ones. https://www.heatingcontrolsonline.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=821&gclid=CjwKCAiAk--dBhABEiwAchIwkWErcuPQ_EMthpOZ5eBY3VATYjXY3CtsfJKiW2tDL7MfCHybjLhgixoCUXoQAvD_BwE An AAV on both the flow and return? I'd seen sets sold where there's an AAV on the flow and pressure gauge on the return.
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 24 minutes ago, jayc89 said: An AAV on both the flow and return? I'd seen sets sold where there's an AAV on the flow and pressure gauge on the return. I always bin the pressure gauge and install 2x AAV's. 1
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: I always bin the pressure gauge and install 2x AAV's. Great stuff, thanks for the help, @Nickfromwales! We do have an AAV in the airing cupboard upstairs, I think it's on the return from the DWH coil.
MJNewton Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, jayc89 said: We do have an AAV in the airing cupboard upstairs, I think it's on the return from the DWH coil. Noting the gate valve on the connecting pipe, and the positioning of the other pipes, I think it looks more like it's on the cold water inlet.. But that seems an odd place to put on so I might well be wrong!
jayc89 Posted January 9, 2023 Author Posted January 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, MJNewton said: Noting the gate valve on the connecting pipe, and the positioning of the other pipes, I think it looks more like it's on the cold water inlet.. But that seems an odd place to put on so I might well be wrong! Pretty sure it's the return, not sure why the gate is there though. The 2 port valve is on the flow and you can just see the nut of the auto-bypass valve, towards the bottom of the picture, between the two.
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, jayc89 said: Pretty sure it's the return, not sure why the gate is there though. The 2 port valve is on the flow and you can just see the nut of the auto-bypass valve, towards the bottom of the picture, between the two. The gate valve is there to balance the flow between the heating and the hot water cylinder coil, eg so the cylinder doesn’t become an accidental bypass reducing flow to the heating if / when both are calling for heat at the same from the one shared boiler pump. Defo not on cold inlet. 1
MJNewton Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 Please do ignore me... Consider me someone that's just wandered along and thrown something in without context or knowledge! 2
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, jayc89 said: We do have an AAV in the airing cupboard upstairs, I think it's on the return from the DWH coil. This is nothing to do with the UFH, is on a different circuit, and won’t remove air from the UFH loops. The vents need to be on the manifold rails to resolve your issue. Go buy some. Don’t make me come down there 💪. 1
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2023 Posted January 9, 2023 33 minutes ago, Onoff said: I've just had a flow rate test... Yup, and oddly it's coming out of you faster than you're drinking it.....
jayc89 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 All done. Not sure if they've made much difference alone but I fiddled with the mixer valve which let off a big gurgle too so I suspect there might have been air trapped in there. Flow rates are currently stable so I'll keep an eye on them. Thanks @Nickfromwales!
jayc89 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 (edited) Just checked back and the flows across all loops has dropped again. Interestingly, one of the flow valves is half empty - the water stops around 2.5 l/m, whereas all others are pretty much full. I've turned that loop off to see if the other ones continue to lose flow. If they don't I'll flush this loop out tomorrow and see if it helps. Edited January 13, 2023 by jayc89
PeterW Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, jayc89 said: Interestingly, one of the flow valves is half empty - the water stops around 2.5 l/m That’s collecting air …
jayc89 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 1 minute ago, PeterW said: That’s collecting air … Any ideas why, especially now there are 2x AAVs on the manifold? Best option to fully flush that loop?
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