Frozen pipes or an air lock?

[recoveringbuilder]

So I’m still here on my own as hubby is in his 8th week in hospital and last night I discovered I had No cold water going to any of my taps APART from the kitchen sink. This morning there’s no hot water at any of the taps either. The water comes in through the slab to under the sink so I’m guessing it’s not frozen at that bit, the pipes to the bathrooms go up the walls and over the ceiling between the ceiling and upstairs floor, all well insulated, heating has been on constantly,ufh downstairs and radiators upstairs on a thermostat so I can’t understand why they would have frozen? Could they be airlocked and if so how do I fix it, every sink has a mixer tap . Trying to get a hold of a plumber but it’s been down to minus 14 here so I’m not being successful!

[recoveringbuilder]

As an update it appears my pipes are frozen somewhere in the house , spoke to two plumbers yesterday and had a couple of chaps from hubbys work out to see if they could help but to no avail. The water is coming into the house and I have cold water in the kitchen, all the pipes go up through the kitchen walls and over the ceiling, they’re all lagged and in beside insulation so how on earth can this happen? I’ve had the heating on 24/7 both upstairs and downstairs and today some of the taps won’t even open! The thaw when it comes might help but hopefully it won’t bring down the ceiling, it’s crap being left here alone in charge of everything 

[ProDave]

Do you have a thermometer in any of the rooms?  If the taps won;t open surely you would know if the room temperature was freezing?

 

If you don't know already, find out now where your main stopcock is, in case you have to turn it off in a hurry if it is a frozen pipe that may have burst?

 

 

[recoveringbuilder]

30 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Do you have a thermometer in any of the rooms?  If the taps won;t open surely you would know if the room temperature was freezing?

 

If you don't know already, find out now where your main stopcock is, in case you have to turn it off in a hurry if it is a frozen pipe that may have burst?

 

 

Upstairs rooms are at 20 degrees, actually too hot for me sleeping in but I cranked them up last weekend to try and avoid anything happening!

[ProDave]

29 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

Upstairs rooms are at 20 degrees, actually too hot for me sleeping in but I cranked them up last weekend to try and avoid anything happening!

So it can't possibly be frozen.  Can you call a plumber?

[Radian]

48 minutes ago, ProDave said:

find out now where your main stopcock is, in case you have to turn it off in a hurry if it is a frozen pipe that may have burst?

Very important this!

 

I don't know what your system is like but It sounds like the cold taps and hot water cylinder are gravity fed from storage tanks in the loft. If you've had -14^oC the problem might be a frozen pipe in the loft. When this thaws it could mean a leak. If you do have pipework in the loft you really need to have it inspected for splits.

 

If your system is gravity fed from the loft there should be an isolating valve somehwere accessible i.e. in an airing cupboard on a pipe going up to the ceiling. Seeing as you have no water except for the kitchen tap, as a precaution I suggest you turn off any isolating valves. Again, if it's gravity fed from a storage tank in the loft then there may be an isolating tap near where the water comes out from the bottom of the tank. This would also be wise to close as the tank could still empty through a burst pipe when thawed.

 

All the above is moot if you have direct water fed to an unvented hot water cylinder and to cold taps - with all pipework in heated spaces but there should still be an isolator somewhere.

 

As a final thought, your household insurance firm might help you get a plumber as they will understand the importance of containing this potential problem.

[recoveringbuilder]

Just now, ProDave said:

So it can't possibly be frozen.  Can you call a plumber?

Called two different plumbers including the one who did the plumbing originally, he says the pipes cannot be accessed as they’re above the kitchen ceiling and below the bedroom floor, I do know that h did lag them, he’s saying because of where they are with insulation under them and insulation above them they’re getting no heat from either the kitchen or bedroom, in other words the rooms are too well insulated and losing no heat to where the pipes are. 

[Radian]

So it's all internal. Did the plumber use any isolators beyond the main stop valve? 

[recoveringbuilder]

3 minutes ago, Radian said:

Very important this!

 

I don't know what your system is like but It sounds like the cold taps and hot water cylinder are gravity fed from storage tanks in the loft. If you've had -14^oC the problem might be a frozen pipe in the loft. When this thaws it could mean a leak. If you do have pipework in the loft you really need to have it inspected for splits.

 

If your system is gravity fed from the loft there should be an isolating valve somehwere accessible i.e. in an airing cupboard on a pipe going up to the ceiling. Seeing as you have no water except for the kitchen tap, as a precaution I suggest you turn off any isolating valves. Again, if it's gravity fed from a storage tank in the loft then there may be an isolating tap near where the water comes out from the bottom of the tank. This would also be wise to close as the tank could still empty through a burst pipe when thawed.

 

All the above is moot if you have direct water fed to an unvented hot water cylinder and to cold taps - with all pipework in heated spaces but there should still be an isolator somewhere.

 

As a final thought, your household insurance firm might help you get a plumber as they will understand the importance of containing this potential problem.

No tanks in the loft and no pipework, tank is a megaflo and it’s on the ground floor. Something in the back of my mind tells me we had this problem a couple of years ago but something else is telling me it was an air lock but I’m damned if I can remember and unfortunately my hubby is in no fit state to remember, I think he’s actually forgotten all about home and is in his own little world of the hospital, it’s so frustrating because in normal circumstances he could have sorted this!

[recoveringbuilder]

2 minutes ago, Radian said:

So it's all internal. Did the plumber use any isolators beyond the main stop valve? 

What are they??

[Radian]

Something like

[recoveringbuilder]

2 minutes ago, Radian said:

Something like

Where would these be?

[Radian]

In the kitchen near where the cold main comes in. Your plumber would know if he used any. It's not mandatory though.

 

I really can't see an airlock completely shutting off mains pressure water. Too much of a coincidence in this unprecedented cold spell. At the very least I would suggest you turn off the main stop tap for the house before going to bed tonight. fortunately any leak would be limited to the small quantity of water in the pipework with the main water turned off.

[recoveringbuilder]

You’ll be glad to know that it defrosted fine. Went to the hospital Friday night and came back to the bath tap running which I had left open 

[Jilly]

Glad it’s all ok. It must be really difficult for you on your own, it’s very frustrating not knowing how stuff has been done. Hope you husband improves soon. 

[recoveringbuilder]

Another year and the same problem! Got up this morning to the exact same scenario, what I do find strange is that obviously the mega flow is full of water?? but it’s not coming out 😩

[marshian]

1 hour ago, recoveringbuilder said:

Another year and the same problem! Got up this morning to the exact same scenario, what I do find strange is that obviously the mega flow is full of water?? but it’s not coming out 😩

 

Somewhere in your house you have a cold feed that is susceptible to freezing - between your mains feed in and your HW tank - probably a boxed in corner of a room that has a pipework in it

 

There is always the chance that if the house was converted from gravity feed with a tank in the loft to mains feed that a "lazy plumber" double the pipe back to the tank from the loft rather than bringing it into the heated envelope of the house where it can't freeze.

[recoveringbuilder]

On 18/01/2024 at 12:10, marshian said:

 

Somewhere in your house you have a cold feed that is susceptible to freezing - between your mains feed in and your HW tank - probably a boxed in corner of a room that has a pipework in it

 

There is always the chance that if the house was converted from gravity feed with a tank in the loft to mains feed that a "lazy plumber" double the pipe back to the tank from the loft rather than bringing it into the heated envelope of the house where it can't freeze.

It was changed from a thermal store to a mega flow , tank is in the same place as it previously was. It thawed out no problem the next day but the pipes are above the kitchen ceiling and below the upstairs bedroom floor, I’m thinking I’ll get a hatch cut out in the bedroom floor to access the pipes as it looks like this is going to be a regular occurrence 

[marshian]

On 24/01/2024 at 13:07, recoveringbuilder said:

It was changed from a thermal store to a mega flow , tank is in the same place as it previously was. It thawed out no problem the next day but the pipes are above the kitchen ceiling and below the upstairs bedroom floor, I’m thinking I’ll get a hatch cut out in the bedroom floor to access the pipes as it looks like this is going to be a regular occurrence 

 

I'm amazed you are getting freezing pipes in a void between two heated rooms (kitchen and bedroom) unless you aren't heating one or both of them..........

[recoveringbuilder]

53 minutes ago, marshian said:

 

I'm amazed you are getting freezing pipes in a void between two heated rooms (kitchen and bedroom) unless you aren't heating one or both of them..........

I’m heating everything! Can’t understand it myself 🤷🏼‍♀️

[marshian]

54 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

I’m heating everything! Can’t understand it myself 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

Then that just doesn't make sense - there has to be part of the pipework that is exposed to much lower temps than would normally be found in a void between floors (or a gale force wind blowing thro the void between the floors - you'd feel that in the floor or ceiling temp

 

I think I'd want to follow the pipe routing very carefully and I'd definately check for any pipes that were in the loft from an original cold water storage tank (unless it never had loft tanks)