Phenolic insulation - no supply ROI

[mike2016]

I've been repricing the floor insulation for my strip foundation - 2 x 140mm Kingspan K103 kooltherm phenolic insulation (u value 0.19) to get a floor U value of 0.07. The supplier told me they have none and to use K3 PIR instead (u 0.21), they also have a Mannok PIR product that's a lot cheaper. Kingspan confirmed they have no supply of the K103 anymore in ROI, this may or may not change in the future. The supplier heard it's only available in the UK for now. It is mad expensive though so maybe this is a good thing? 

 

I've not been a great fan of PIR, especially when it gets wet but I'd need to increase the depth to keep the same floor U value. Are there any other options with low u value for a floor? At least I plan for the house to be air / water tight when I lay it down so it shouldn't get wet. 

 

I'm also talking to Kore to determine the extra depth beyond the standard 300mm of EPS for a raft foundation but the local rep hasn't been enthusiastic to say the least about my enquiry! My preferred groundworks contractor isn't mad about rafts either. How much do you push uphill before giving up and just getting on with something?! Finding good contractor is hard enough, getting  one that builds your preferred way is a lot harder! 

 

The walls & Roof are 220mm climawool & 50mm kooltherm for the wall buildup u 0.1. Preferred Builder doesn't do cellulose / twin stud, wish MBC was over here!! 

 

At the end of the day as long as I can get the house built and it meets the U values I'm after, it will all be covered up and I won't care how it was built at the end of the day. If it was easy everyone would be doing it!! 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

19 minutes ago, mike2016 said:

wish MBC was over here!! 

I thought it was an Irish company, have they totally pulled out of the country/EU?

[Adrian Walker]

1 hour ago, mike2016 said:

I've been repricing the floor insulation for my strip foundation - 2 x 140mm Kingspan K103 kooltherm phenolic insulation (u value 0.19) to get a floor U value of 0.07. The supplier told me they have none and to use K3 PIR instead (u 0.21), they also have a Mannok PIR product that's a lot cheaper. Kingspan confirmed they have no supply of the K103 anymore in ROI, this may or may not change in the future. The supplier heard it's only available in the UK for now. It is mad expensive though so maybe this is a good thing? 

 

I've not been a great fan of PIR, especially when it gets wet but I'd need to increase the depth to keep the same floor U value. Are there any other options with low u value for a floor? At least I plan for the house to be air / water tight when I lay it down so it shouldn't get wet. 

 

I'm also talking to Kore to determine the extra depth beyond the standard 300mm of EPS for a raft foundation but the local rep hasn't been enthusiastic to say the least about my enquiry! My preferred groundworks contractor isn't mad about rafts either. How much do you push uphill before giving up and just getting on with something?! Finding good contractor is hard enough, getting  one that builds your preferred way is a lot harder! 

 

The walls & Roof are 220mm climawool & 50mm kooltherm for the wall buildup u 0.1. Preferred Builder doesn't do cellulose / twin stud, wish MBC was over here!! 

 

At the end of the day as long as I can get the house built and it meets the U values I'm after, it will all be covered up and I won't care how it was built at the end of the day. If it was easy everyone would be doing it!! 

 

 

 

Why do you need an insulation level of 0.07?

[mike2016]

PHPP for a smaller passive house requires much lower U values than normal, one of the oddities of that approach. It's a simple box shape but size vs occupants is a challenge. There's an article about it below: 

https://passivehouseplus.ie/magazine/insight/the-small-passive-house-problem-a-solution

 

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Adrian Walker said:

Why do you need an insulation level of 0.07?

Because it is the right thing to do.

[Jilly]

Only commiserations and empathy to offer. I used Kooltherm K103 under my UF heating because were short of space and it seems very efficient. I know what you mean about the builder building your house within his comfort levels rather than your future comfort! . All that teeth sucking...

[mike2016]

I can go for thicker insulation, just not mad about PIR in the floor although both my sheds use it extensively! I must be an insulation snob! Surprised of supply issues as I thought we were past that point. Aerogel is too expensive and I won't miss an extra 10-20mm in the floors and walls to be honest! 

[Dave Jones]

300mm of EPS is 0.132

 

much cheaper than phenolic.

 

do the math. muck away of an extra 200mm of soil or pay extra for celtex.

[mike2016]

PIR is a lot cheaper too - I'm just wondering about the pipework under the slab though? I have a fixed ridge height (in a line of existing houses) and min room heights to meet so driving down is fine but doesn't that mean you have to go deeper with the drainage pipeworks under the MOT? I've to connect to the start of a drain run so it's at its highest at the back of my garden - there are two shores there. Or can you still dig down but keep the drainage at the required level to meet the fall required? Thanks.