markharro Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Just thinking ahead. If I am hard wiring to rooms where there will be TVs will CAT6 or CAT6A be ok for 8K TV? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 I looked at this and stuck in CAT6. CAT6A requires better, more expensive connectors, wall sockets etc. I seem to remember that 8k is really meant for fiber as it can need more than 40Gbp/s to get the full benefit of it. CAT6 and CAT6a do up to 10Gbp/s, the difference being CAT6a can achieve that over longer runs, 100 meters compared to 55 meters for CAT6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markharro Posted October 27, 2022 Author Share Posted October 27, 2022 Ralph that's very helpful thanks. So assuming we had no runs above 55 metres in the house there is zero to be gained from installing CAT6A? On the 8k, is it worth putting in fibre? Can you do that DIY? What is CAT7 - would that not cope with 8K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 15 minutes ago, markharro said: So assuming we had no runs above 55 metres in the house there is zero to be gained from installing CAT6A? That's my understanding yes. CAT7 is something produced by some companies but I don't think it's made to an agreed standard like CAT6, I think you also get CAT8 which is in a similar position to CAT7. You can DIY fiber but I don't know if it limits you with regards to what you can connect to it. Definitely worth thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Don't know about 8k but even at 4k I found the limit is not the bandwidth, but HDCP crapping out and blocking UHD transmission as it doesn't look like 1m length of pure HDMI cable. That was with an NVidia shield sending over a blustream HDbaseT matrix. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 What’s the source of your 8K likely to be? If streaming then your internal network won’t be the weakest link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markharro Posted October 28, 2022 Author Share Posted October 28, 2022 14 hours ago, joth said: Don't know about 8k but even at 4k I found the limit is not the bandwidth, but HDCP crapping out and blocking UHD transmission as it doesn't look like 1m length of pure HDMI cable. That was with an NVidia shield sending over a blustream HDbaseT matrix. YMMV I'm afraid this is beyond me technically. I expect this is to do with router capability? I'm only interested atm in the wiring infrastructure. I have no idea what the source of the 8K will be....I guess I am thinking that in the future it may be pure fibre into the house to a new router and then distributed from that or will a 5G modem router be enough? Thats not the point. I'm only interested in what to plan for for wiring from a central spot in the house to possible TV locations. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 OK I was answering the question of internal distribution of a genuine 8K HDMI-like source. Regarding distribution of IP streamed from the internet to the TV itself, as @Kelvin says CAT6 will be more than enough even for future with fibre to the house. The streaming source (Netflix or whatever) compress the hell out of the stream, so it's not even 4K distribution in my book - it'll be decades before "full rate" 8K is streamed into the home. And even then, CAT6 would be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 On 28/10/2022 at 10:21, joth said: it'll be decades before "full rate" 8K is streamed into the home. And even then, CAT6 would be OK. Depends what you mean by "full rate". The uncompressed bitrate for 8K HDR is around 48Gbit/s and and even 4K HDR is >10Gbit/s, so technically CAT6 won't support these bitrates. On 27/10/2022 at 18:22, markharro said: What is CAT7 - would that not cope with 8K? No. See https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/know-your-cable-cat7-ethernet On 27/10/2022 at 18:22, markharro said: On the 8k, is it worth putting in fibre? Can you do that DIY? You could. What make most sense IMO is to run unterminated fibre for future-proofing but not pay to terminated it until you need it. Or you could install pre-terminated cables from somewhere like https://www.fs.com/. If you buy fibre need to look for multimode (OM3, OM4 isn't justified and costs more) and you'll also want something with mutiple fibres to support throughput. Should be available for around £1/m. If you are only concerned about 1-2 locations where video source and dispaly won't be next to each other, then the best solution may be to install HDMI AOC cables in these specific locations. These are available up to 40m long and support 48 Gbps. That said, I agree with others that we are a long way off 8k 48Gbit/s video steams being widely used. Netflix 4k UHD steam is only around 18Mbps today! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 10 hours ago, Dan F said: Depends what you mean by "full rate". The uncompressed bitrate for 8K HDR is around 48Gbit/s and and even 4K HDR is >10Gbit/s, so technically CAT6 won't support these bitrates. Yes quite, my scare quotes around "full rate" was lazy way of saying compressed stream but at a high enough quality you'd not know it. Like Blu-ray aims for. No one will be streaming uncompressed 8K to the home in my lifetime 😅 (or probably, ever). Thoughtfully implemented compression will surely always be worth applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markharro Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 30/10/2022 at 21:04, Dan F said: If you are only concerned about 1-2 locations where video source and dispaly won't be next to each other, then the best solution may be to install HDMI AOC cables in these specific locations. These are available up to 40m long and support 48 Gbps. Thanks - I had no idea these existed. So in summary if I just wanted to stream from eg iplayer or Netflix in up to 4k a CAT6 or 6A cable will do fine? If we were talking uncompressed 4 or 8k presumably that would need to come into the house via a fibre-optic cable using some sort of pay TV service/box. I don't use these so can the box be put in a central place and then multiple cable feeds be taken using HDMI to remote TVs? So this is where using the AOC cables would come in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 2 hours ago, markharro said: Thanks - I had no idea these existed. So in summary if I just wanted to stream from eg iplayer or Netflix in up to 4k a CAT6 or 6A cable will do fine? Yes, assuming compressed 4k. IPlayer/Netflix streams currently use up to around 24Mbps whereas Cat6 supports up to around 9000Mbps. So, even if streams become less compressed over time there is still a ton of overhead. The difference betwen Cat6 and Cat6a is maximum distance supported at 10Gbps. 2 hours ago, markharro said: If we were talking uncompressed 4 or 8k presumably that would need to come into the house via a fibre-optic cable using some sort of pay TV service/box. I don't use these so can the box be put in a central place and then multiple cable feeds be taken using HDMI to remote TVs? So this is where using the AOC cables would come in? Uncompressed 4k or 8k you primarily need to think about being blu-ray, ps4, reciever ->TV and you should use HDMI (AOC is required for length) in these cases. Uncompressed 4k or 8k coming into your house is a long way off, but if you wanted to future-proof for this you'd want to plan for 40GB or ideally 100GB fibre links everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 Ha wish I'd known about AOC 2 years ago... They have versions with detachable connectors which makes it much easier to thread through building voids. I think the fiber termination is proprietary though so installing bare fiber and terminating later to make an AOC seems a long shot. I still wonder how reliable HDCP over them in practice. I've found anything that doesn't look like a pure direct HDMI cable makes it randomly crap out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, joth said: They have versions with detachable connectors which makes it much easier to thread through building voids. What would you use case for this be? Personally I put two AOC cables in: 1) One between TV cabinet and potential projector location. 2) One between a poential "frame" TV on a wall in the living room (which doesn't thave a cabinet or anything) to a remote cupboard. 2 hours ago, joth said: I still wonder how reliable HDCP over them in practice. I've found anything that doesn't look like a pure direct HDMI cable makes it randomly crap out. One I was recommended were these. Not used ones we have installed yet though. https://cleerlinefiber.com/product/hdmi-active-optical-cables/ https://www.wyrestorm.com/global/aoc-cables/ Edited November 2, 2022 by Dan F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 3, 2022 Share Posted November 3, 2022 8 hours ago, Dan F said: What would you use case for this be? I have a couple video sources in a central AV cupboard that I send to multiple rooms (and the audio to the whole house speakers). So we can wonder around from room to room and keep tabs on it (more for watching sport or something than a dedicated movie session oc). I believe households with more (than zero) children have less call for this, as then the whole point of multiple TVs is to NOT have the same thing on every set... I have a 4K HDCP2.2 blustream HDbaseT matrix which mostly solves this but Netflix won't do 4K. I installed some longer (15m) galvanic HDMI cables in the build, at quite some faff, but they also don't work at 4K. (Yes should have tested that first I now know!). 1080P is fine to my old eyes anyway; at least the sound is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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