LG Therma V R32 Monobloc VS Stiebel Eltron WPL 25 AS

[thefoxesmaltings]

Potentially considering a heat pump company whom only install LG and Stiebel heatpumps. Apparently they are some of the best and the companies themselves offer really good install support, training etc.

 

Although visually ugly, I am leaning towards the LG Therma V R32 Monobloc (16kw) as it seems it has a better SCOP of 4.45, and can perform to -25c. Whereas the Stiebel has a SCOP of 4.39 and can perform only to -20. I figure the time you need a heatpump most is when it's freezing cold outside, so it would make sense to accomodate a worst case external temperature scenario, especially with the way our winters are heading.

 

The sound power level for both is 55dBA, which seems quite loud compared to other heat pumps, but not sure what choice I have here.

 

If anyone has a LG Therma V R32 installed:

1. How loud/noticeable do you find it, any complaints from nearby neighbours?
2. What's the overall performance like, any issues?
3. Favourite and worst thing about it?
4. Would you recommend it?

 

Additionally, if there are other things I should be considering, would be happy to hear any heatpump advice.

[Garald]

How often does it get to -25C where you are? Stiebel Eltron has a good reputation (... and a reputation for being expensive; what is the difference in price)?

 

I recently had to decide between a Stiebel Eltron heat pump and another one (in monobloc), and chose the other one, but that's because the Stiebel Eltron was bulky - and mind you, the other one was not LG.

 

(How long is LG's warranty?)

[JohnMo]

I wouldn't be concentrating on make of heat pump that much, I would concentrate on the design of the system the heat pump feeds.  That's the bit you need to get right, as any heat pump connected to rubbish system, will perform badly.

[ReedRichards]

2 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

If anyone has a LG Therma V R32 installed:

 

How loud/noticeable do you find it, any complaints from nearby neighbours?

My neighbours are not nearby.  it's behind the kitchen and audible inside the house only if you have the kitchen window open.  Although the noise is different, I don't feel it is any louder than the external oil boiler it replaced.

 

2 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

What's the overall performance like, any issues?

 

Seems fine.  No issues after the first week (it stopped after 24 hours with what turned out to be a blocked filter; a "known bug" as it turned out).

 

2 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

Favourite and worst thing about it?

It just works.  The controller lacks a "holiday mode", which is a bit annoying. 

 

 

2 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

Would you recommend it?

 

Yes, although I agree that the design of what it is feeding is more important than the heat pump.  It does not seem to suffer from the high standby power consumption of some heat pumps.

[JamesPa]

11 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

The sound power level for both is 55dBA, which seems quite loud compared to other heat pumps, but not sure what choice I have here.

 

This caught my eye as it seems low (most 12-16kW models seem to have a sound power level around 60dB(A)). 

 

According to the datasheet I have, from the 2021/2022 product catalog, the LG 16kW monobloc is 61dB(A).  I dont know about the Stiebel Eltron, they make it too difficult to find information so I gave up.

 

Incidentally many manufacturers make a bog song and dance about sound pressure at (1, 3, 5m).  Its sound power that is the true comparison between models (and what is used in the MCS calculations), sound pressure depends on the physical conditions..

[PhilT]

7 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

This caught my eye as it seems low (most 12-16kW models seem to have a sound power level around 60dB(A)). 

 

According to the datasheet I have, from the 2021/2022 product catalog, the LG 16kW monobloc is 61dB(A).  I dont know about the Stiebel Eltron, they make it too difficult to find information so I gave up.

 

Incidentally many manufacturers make a bog song and dance about sound pressure at (1, 3, 5m).  Its sound power that is the true comparison between models (and what is used in the MCS calculations), sound pressure depends on the physical conditions..

PWL is "absolute" whereas SPL depends on distance from the source. Ecodan PWL is 60 with SPL 47dB @ 1m. All the leading brands are quiet at temps above 4degC. They all get much noisier below that (it's a muted "roar" rather than an unpleasant "noise") but the manufacturers don't quote those figures, at least I haven't been able to find any.

[JamesPa]

1 hour ago, PhilT said:

PWL is "absolute" whereas SPL depends on distance from the source.

Quite so, hence the thing to compare is PWL (sound power level)

 

1 hour ago, PhilT said:

They all get much noisier below that (it's a muted "roar" rather than an unpleasant "noise") but the manufacturers don't quote those figures, at least I haven't been able to find any.

 

I had assumed that the quoted PWL was the maximum, are you saying its the 4C+ value?  

 

 

[thefoxesmaltings]

5 hours ago, JamesPa said:

This caught my eye as it seems low (most 12-16kW models seem to have a sound power level around 60dB(A)). 

 

According to the datasheet I have, from the 2021/2022 product catalog, the LG 16kW monobloc is 61dB(A).  I dont know about the Stiebel Eltron, they make it too difficult to find information so I gave up.

 

Incidentally many manufacturers make a bog song and dance about sound pressure at (1, 3, 5m).  Its sound power that is the true comparison between models (and what is used in the MCS calculations), sound pressure depends on the physical conditions..

I also found it incredibly annoying to find any decent level of technical spec from Stiebel. After cross checking multiple sources and datasheets, I did manage to find their technical info, but it still wasn't as comprehensive as LG's

 

With regards to LG sound power level, see graphic from the latest datasheet from the LG website:

 

[thefoxesmaltings]

16 hours ago, Garald said:

How often does it get to -25C where you are? Stiebel Eltron has a good reputation (... and a reputation for being expensive; what is the difference in price)?

 

I recently had to decide between a Stiebel Eltron heat pump and another one (in monobloc), and chose the other one, but that's because the Stiebel Eltron was bulky - and mind you, the other one was not LG.

 

(How long is LG's warranty?)

Stiebel is about £900 more, so not much in it.

 

From what I can gather from official websites, LG warranty is 7 years and Stiebel is 5 years.

[JamesPa]

14 minutes ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

With regards to LG sound power level, see graphic from the latest datasheet from the LG website:

 

Yes...but the spec says something different

 

 

or 

Depending on whether you look at the leaflet (which contains the graphic you posted) https://www.lg.com/gr/download/resources/CT32004443/CT32004443_1641.pdf

 

or the 'Product Catalogue' (which I downloaded a while ago but now cant find online)

 

LG speak with forked tongue.

 

 

[PhilT]

39 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Yes...but the spec says something different

 

 

or 

Depending on whether you look at the leaflet (which contains the graphic you posted) https://www.lg.com/gr/download/resources/CT32004443/CT32004443_1641.pdf

 

or the 'Product Catalogue' (which I downloaded a while ago but now cant find online)

 

LG speak with forked tongue.

 

 

Yes it's somewhat confusing. Sound Power Level, also denoted by PWL, is different from Sound Pressure Level. Sound Power Level is the absolute level of sound power that an object radiates in all directions, i.e. the sound power GENERATED, in watts and decibels, whereas Sound Pressure Level is what is received by either the human ear or a measuring device such as a decibel meter. The LG is quoted at a sound power level of 63dB but I can't see a Sound Pressure Level quoted. The Ecodan is quoted as having a Sound Power Level of 60dB and a Sound Pressure Level of 47dB at one meter. This is for average temps, at which all the latest brands/models run at similar very quiet levels. That changes significantly when temps drop to a few degC and below - the fan and machinery work harder and get louder. I measured mine's Sound Pressure Level last year from an open window just under one meter to the right of the unit and got 53dB at 9degC, rising to 63dB at 4degC and 71dB at 0degC

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by PhilT

[JamesPa]

23 minutes ago, PhilT said:

Yes it's somewhat confusing. Sound Power Level, also denoted by PWL, is different from Sound Pressure Level. Sound Power Level is the absolute level of sound power that an object radiates in all directions, i.e. the sound power GENERATED, in watts and decibels, whereas Sound Pressure Level is what is received by either the human ear or a measuring device such as a decibel meter.

Indeed so, and its sound POWER level that feeds into the MCS calculations (and as you say is the absolute measure) to determine a pressure level at the 'reference points (basically your neighbours windows).  Pressure level is dependent on distance, obstructions, and also on how many sides the unit has a surface that reflect the sound.

 

My concern is your comment

26 minutes ago, PhilT said:

This is for average temps, at which all the latest brands/models run at similar very quiet levels. That changes significantly when temps drop to a few degC and below - the fan and machinery work harder and get louder. I measured mine's Sound Pressure Level last year from an open window just under one meter to the right of the unit and got 53dB at 9degC, rising to 63dB at 4degC and 71dB at 0degC

Thats open to manipulation by the marketeers.  I had always assumed that the quoted sound power level (and the figures to be fed into the MCS calculations) was the max, not the 'typical'.  Is this really the case and if so is there a 'standard' for 'average'?  71dB is loud.

 

 

[PhilT]

"Louder" rather than "Loud" - it's all relative, only happening when it's very cold and everyone is indoors with the windows shut! You can barely hear 71dB from inside the house. Although it was unexpected based on the specs (and Youtube vids) it's really not a problem.

[JamesPa]

Pragmatically I'm sure you are right, but precision is needed in these matters, because they trigger planning conditions (= obstacles to becoming greener)  often imposed by officials who don't fully understand these matters (no criticism, they haven't been properly trained).

 

Until I read this thread I was pretty confident I'd found a solution for my retrofit which won't annoy the neighbours or violate likely planning conditions, now i'm not sure.

 

I'm not 'blaming' anybody commenting on this thread, its merely an observation that we need more precision (or standards) in specs if ashp is to I be mainstream, which I'm sure all on this forum know needs to happen!

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by JamesPa