Tado with Underfloor Heating & Radiators

[Bosi]

Hi. 

 

I wonder if someone could help me to make the right decision please.

 

We have a new underfloor system in an open space Livingroom / Kitchen in a L-shape. The builder put 2 zones in the kitchen are ( one end of the imaginable L-shape ), one zone in the middle where the main Livingroom area is  and one zone at the other end of the L-Shape area, where the dining area is, plus it goes over in a nearby small utility / toilet. ( see image )

 

At the moment we use upstairs radiators tado valves, and we have bought but not installed yet a Tado Starter Kit Wireless Smart Thermostat, to control the Worcester Bosh boiler, and one wired Smart Thermostat for the underfloor heating. 

 

The whole space is not huge, maybe 8x4m one direction an 8 x3.4 m the other.

 

I wonder how we can control it best via Tado and how many Tado wired Thermostats are useful, as I could just install them quite close together ( like around the corner with 1 m each from the corner ), maybe with new wiring one direct in the kitchen area and one in the Livingroom/dining room area

 

Somehow it feels that max two Thermostats would make the most sense, and to turn the existing pump for the underfloor heating with those  on or off in addition.
( At the moment we do not have any electrical actuators installed , just manual controlled)

 

For example a heatmiser 4 zone with 4 actuators installed.  Could I get each 2 Actuators controlled by 1  Tado wired smart Thermostat,

I would like to turn the underfloor heating off when a max temp reached and/or over night incl. controlling the underfloor heating pump.

 

Does this make sense or what are your thoughts please?

 

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Bosi]

When possible I would appreciate a wiring explanation too please, and what you would recommend to install. 
At the moment I am looking at the heatmiser UH4 and the Danfoss 088H3220 230V NC.

Our Worcester Bosh boiler is in the loft and the underfloor downstairs. Do I need wiring up to the boiler to control them, even when I use the tado wireless smart thermostat? 

[ProDave]

I am not familliar with the Tado kit, someone else will have to help with that, but lets assume they end up as an open / close contact, just like any other thermostat.

 

For the UFH you have to decide is it worth having 2 zones for that room, or all one one zone.   It is unlikely you could keep one end of the room warmer than the other even if you wanted to.

 

for wiring, if you are going to do it all as one zone, then you don't need actuators on the manifold, you simply turn on or turn off the manifold pump and possibly a motorised valve.  So no manifold controller needed.

 

If you are going to do it as 2 zones then you will need something like the UH4 and an actuator for each pipe loop.  That works by opening only the pipe loops that are calling for heat and turning the pump on if any zones call for heat.

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Bosi said:

At the moment we use upstairs radiators tado valves, and we have bought but not installed yet a Tado Starter Kit Wireless Smart Thermostat

Is the UFH actually installed ..?

 

If not - bin off the Heatmiser stuff and go with the Wunda self balancing actuators on a 4 port manifold and a single Tado thermostat in that area. Run it as one zone and put the stat in the corner of the L opposite where you have it now but away from any windows or doors. 

 

 

You will need zone valves in this lot too but can’t give you a wiring diagram without knowing the rest of the layout. 
 

also don’t forget bypass rads or bypass valves on the heating circuits so the boiler doesn’t overheat

[JohnMo]

I'm with Dave on this keep it simple.  Operate as a single zone, single thermostat controlling pump.  Manual valves, will allow you balance any temperature difference provided by each loop.  Self balancing actuators will run at a set delta T so may not add any value in this situation.

 

I would use a wireless thermostat then once the heating is functioning you can move the thermostat about to find its best location.

[Bosi]

Thank you all for your feedback. My first intention was to go with a single Thermostat, but I got my doubts. 

 

@ProDave Do I get it right that you recommend the a motorised valve to avoid the problem which I have at the moment, which is that even when I turn of the pump and the heating is on, it gets hot water pumped through by the main boiler, of course less than with the pump on. 
I would like to have the freedom to turn the underfloor complete off when possible.

 

I know you wrote that you don't know Tado, So I wonder in general if Tado can control the pump I have ( plus possible a new motorized valve ) I would like that Tado can communicate with the boiler when it needs heat, just like the radiator valves.

 

 

@ PeterW, the Wunda self balancing actuators look very interesting. I will have this in mind, should I still need actuators. Thank you.

 

 

@JohnMo, what do you mean by "single thermostat controlling pump". At the moment I have a grundfos pump.

 

At the moment, even when I turn of the pump and the heating is on, it gets hot water pumped through by the main boiler, of course less than with the pump on, but I would like to have the freedom to turn the underfloor complete off when possible.

 

I wonder if I need a wiring to the boiler in the loft by using the Tado wired smart thermostat downstairs, and the wireless smmart thermostat next to the boiler?

 

I don't have the UHF yet, just read that some recommended it.

 

Thank you again all for your support

[PeterW]

That room doesn’t need 2 stats - it needs one and you can’t really heat one end more than the other. 
 

In terms of the Tado controller, you should have the stat control the valve and then the valve control the pump and the boiler. That means the boiler fires independently if UFH or Rads request heat.

 

 

 

 

[Bosi]

Hi.

Thank you again for your thoughts.

I noticed that I have forgot to mention what I already have:

So currently I already own the Tado Wireless Starter Kit V3+ which comes with the Boiler control and one wireless Thermostat.
In addition I have one wired smart Thermostat.

I know that I need the wired Thermostat to control my underfloor heating. 

But what do I actually use the wireless Thermostat for? The radiators already have Tado valves.

So is the wireless one useless, did I get the wrong box, or how can this be used?

As far as I understand, the wireless one would fire up the boiler when necessary, but it can not control that for the UFH pump will go on, right? So with all other Radiators ( beside the Bathroom ) tado valves fitted it is kinda useless, or I use it in the Bathroom. Or do I understand this wrong?

 

@PeterW

 

You have mentioned that : you should have the stat control the valve and then the valve control the pump and the boiler. That means the boiler fires independently if UFH or Rads request heat.

COuld you kindly explain this more plainly for me please? 

At the moment I understand that you suggest using the wired Tado Thermostat to control all 4 valves ( actuators ) = would you recommend any special and would I need a controller box for this?  

and the valve control ( which means the actuators ? ) the pump and the boiler

? How would they do it? I thought the Tado Thermostat is controlling the valves and pump ?

Sorry I am not an expert in this, but I try to get it logical and then in action.

Thank you for all your help

Chers