immersion heating circuit connected to kitchen ring by NIC EIC electrician - is this correct?

[Question]

I have just had an NIC EIC electrician do some work on my house, and carried out a conditions report on all circuits.  He has installed a new immersion heater circuit for my 250 litre water cylinder, and has connected it via the kitchen ring/power sockets.  

 

I thought immersion heaters had had to have their own dedicated circuit connected directly to the consumer unit.   There is an isolation switch though for the immersion heater. 

 

So, has the NIC EIC electrician done the right thing?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Question

[ProDave]

No, fixed heating appliances over (iirc) 2kW should be on a dedicated circuit.

 

Did he discuss this with you first?  It might be that due to the house layout or construction it would be a major job to get a new cable through to the consumer unit, or there might not be any spare capacity in the consumer unit or the consumer unit might need upgrading?

 

In other words he might have done this as a quick and cheap solution to save what would otherwise have been a very expensive and disruptive job, but I would have discussed the issues and problems with the customer if it were me.

 

Is this immersion for regular use, or just there as a backup if the boiler breaks down and unlikely to get much use?  that may have swayed his thinking.

 

It is unlikely to be "dangerous" but taking that much load from a ring final would restrict what other loads can run from that circuit and could lead to nuisance tripping if the washing machine, dishwasher etc were on at the same time as the immersion heater.

[Question]

Thanks very much for your reply.  We have had real problems with our electrician.    He has installed a new CCU but has just given us an EICR for it.  I understand an EIC is required, and we are now asking for one.  And I could go on.....

 

The immersion will be used for a back up, but he did NOT discuss anything about it or did NOT warn us about anything.   Not surprising with the electrician we had. 

 

Should this limitation with the immersion heater be mentioned in the EICR?  Perhaps code C3 (Improvement Recommended) under Part 6 ? 

[ProDave]

Sadly, being a member of the NICEIC does not appear to mean his is a "good" electrician.  I hear lots of complaints about their members, and it appears even complaining to the NICEIC about a members work achieves nothing. In fact there is a rather cynical view that the only time NICEIC will actually do something, is if they find someone using their logo or claiming to be a member when they are not.

 

Yes an EIC should have been issued, but the Schedule of test results is pretty much identical to what would be on an EIC.  Yes it would be a C3 so it would still get a "satisfactory" outcome.

 

Very poor that he did not discuss options with you.  communication with the customer is important so they get what they want, or agree a compromise if what they want is not possible or at least very difficult.  

[Carrerahill]

29 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Sadly, being a member of the NICEIC does not appear to mean his is a "good" electrician.  I hear lots of complaints about their members, and it appears even complaining to the NICEIC about a members work achieves nothing. In fact there is a rather cynical view that the only time NICEIC will actually do something, is if they find someone using their logo or claiming to be a member when they are not.

 

Yes an EIC should have been issued, but the Schedule of test results is pretty much identical to what would be on an EIC.  Yes it would be a C3 so it would still get a "satisfactory" outcome.

 

Very poor that he did not discuss options with you.  communication with the customer is important so they get what they want, or agree a compromise if what they want is not possible or at least very difficult.  

NICEIC is just a subscription gathering organisation in my eyes, as with many of these professional organisations. I have more or less been in engineering consultancy my whole career, I've been a member of a professional membership for 1 year until I came to renewal and realised I'd given someone £350 the year before for absolutely no reason - well, apart from the magazine, which was pretty much a magazine full of advert articles!

 

A few years ago I did some research into it all, and came up with the answer that in Scotland anyway, you don't actually need to be a member of any of these organisations, its just implied and people expect it now, but as you say it doesn't actually mean good sparks.

 

Thinking aloud here for some discussion Dave regarding the immerser on the ring; I'd say that within 314 - division of installations, that will suggest that a hot water heating circuit should not be combined with a kitchen ring, it also ruins the diversity figures and the circuit design is being stretched having a 11-12A continuous (hours) load on it when other kitchen appliances kick in. 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Carrerahill
Spelling

[Question]

Thanks again for your replies. How depressing to find out that complaining to the NIC EIC often does nothing.  If it clear that that the electrician has not followed the rules (not issued an EIC report for a new CCU), then would the NIC EIC do something if we complained?   

[Carrerahill]

2 minutes ago, Question said:

Thanks again for your replies. How depressing to find out that complaining to the NIC EIC often does nothing.  If it clear that that the electrician has not followed the rules (not issued an EIC report for a new CCU), then would the NIC EIC do something if we complained?   

Probably not - even if they did, they might just send a email or letter to the electrician telling them to sort it, but they will immediately treat you with contempt, because you are not paying their subscription. They will also probably almost immediately treat you as a laymen and try a fobbing off exercise. 

 

Just to understand this, did your electrician install a new CU (consumer unit)? I would expect him maybe to have done an EICR before the board was done to highlight any issues, after the board is installed I would then expect an EIC for the board, but the whole installation should be checked now he has replaced the heart of the system. 

 

 

[Question]

He checked the electrics for the whole house and installed a new CCU.   Then he resolved some issues with the house and then issued me with an EICR for the whole house.     He did not issue me with an EIC, though it is mentioned in the initial quote.  So perhaps the small claims court is a more promising avenue? 

[ProDave]

6 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

A few years ago I did some research into it all, and came up with the answer that in Scotland anyway, you don't actually need to be a member of any of these organisations, its just implied and people expect it now, but as you say it doesn't actually mean good sparks.

Absolutely.  The only reason for being a member of such a scheme in England and Wales is so you can self certify for part P, which thankfully we don't have up here.

[Question]

What about Trading standards?  

 

I think I'll start by warning the contractor about the NIC EIC complaints:  it may worry him about his ability to practice as an NIC EIC electrician. Then I will make a complaint to the NIC EIC and I know how to make really effective complaints.  There is no hurry but it is a bit time consuming.  I won't expect too much.  

 

Following that and using any evidence from the NIC EIC complaints procedure, I'll go to the small claims court.  

[Jenki]

15 hours ago, ProDave said:

Absolutely.  The only reason for being a member of such a scheme in England and Wales is so you can self certify for part P, which thankfully we don't have up here.

I Cant wait to rid of that Bull***t.