Beam & Block Detail for Nudura...

[Mako]

On 25/04/2022 at 17:43, Mulberry View said:

 

I've just spoken with Springvale about Beamshield and the standout disadvantage is the vulnerability of the product while completing the onward work. They ideally want the screed down as soon as possible, which is, of course, tricky if UFH is required (it is for us). The 'workaround' appears to be putting down a protective plywood layer (££££) until we're ready to get the UFH in and screeded. So this will have to be factored into the cost.

 

I think I've understood correctly that the Beamshield system deals with the whole subfloor structure from inbetween the concrete beam up to the underneath of the screed, thus accounting for the 150mm 'Celotex' layer.

It might be all too late now, but there are systems for suspended floors where you can install UFH straight into the concrete

and insulate from underneath, winwin solution

[IATM]

On 24/04/2022 at 17:15, FM2015 said:

Get him to design a slab and cut out loads of stages?

ICF rising walls?

 

Trench fill is just a waste of time and materials.

 

So are starter bars.  Can recall seeing starter bars on timber frame or masonry builds.  Obviously ICF building like to slip off their footings 🧐

Is a slab generally quicker and easier?

[Dave Jones]

On 25/04/2022 at 07:08, Nickfromwales said:

If you’re stuck with B&B, then do yourself a HUGE favour and install Beamsheild / other instead of the concrete blocks!!

B&B founds are the anti-Christ imo, and the last thing I’d ever want is a sub-zero hoolie blowing under my heated slab in the winter.

 

it wont be the beam is insulated and air is a better insulator than wet ground like a traditional slab.

 

B & B every time for me, fast, accurate, less labour, better for environment.

[Dave Jones]

28 minutes ago, IATM said:

Is a slab generally quicker and easier?

no its slower and cheaper.

[Nickfromwales]

4 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

 

it wont be the beam is insulated and air is a better insulator than wet ground like a traditional slab.

 

B & B every time for me, fast, accurate, less labour, better for environment.

2nd worst foundation on the market, after just dropping trenches in. Cheap and nasty IMO, cold-ventilated all winter, a choice of the bean counter, only. 
 

The beam is 100% insulated 360° round with these products ( Beamshield etc ) including the underbelly, so the ice cold whistling wing blowing continuously under your heated floor for the nasty 3 months of winter won’t be a problem.
 

Bare B&B is complete shart, sorry. Even with trenches the slab won’t go lower than ambient geothermal temp, but b&b will easily go down to freezing temps. 
 

Ask a client if they’d prefer to buy concrete blocks or insulation to achieve the same result ( physically). 

Then ask them if they’d prefer a thermally broken foundation or one which will act like a fridge.

If folk are budget constrained then a b&b may be their only choice, but why would you not then improve it any way you could, given that the cost of the blocks / labour / grouting would be in your back pocket to go towards the insulated slab system?

 

[Nickfromwales]

5 hours ago, IATM said:

Is a slab generally quicker and easier?

How do you value this slab? And do you mean an insulated raft? Or a slab over strip founds? 

[Canski]

https://www.litecast.co.uk/products/litecast-gt/ I have worked with these a few times in the past and haven't heard of any problems. Ok the floor slab needs to go in early but that's a good thing isn't it ?

 

[Dave Jones]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

2nd worst foundation on the market, after just dropping trenches in. Cheap and nasty IMO, cold-ventilated all winter, a choice of the bean counter, only. 
 

The beam is 100% insulated 360° round with these products ( Beamshield etc ) including the underbelly, so the ice cold whistling wing blowing continuously under your heated floor for the nasty 3 months of winter won’t be a problem.
 

Bare B&B is complete shart, sorry. Even with trenches the slab won’t go lower than ambient geothermal temp, but b&b will easily go down to freezing temps. 
 

Ask a client if they’d prefer to buy concrete blocks or insulation to achieve the same result ( physically). 

Then ask them if they’d prefer a thermally broken foundation or one which will act like a fridge.

If folk are budget constrained then a b&b may be their only choice, but why would you not then improve it any way you could, given that the cost of the blocks / labour / grouting would be in your back pocket to go towards the insulated slab system?

 

 

disagree. as long as its insulated its superior. Just same as internal walls not freezing as they are insulated etc

[Nickfromwales]

7 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

 

disagree. as long as its insulated its superior. Just same as internal walls not freezing as they are insulated etc

Superior to what? Insulated where, and how? Back up what you say with some facts please.

 

When did you last hear of a typical internal domestic home wall freezing? Can you give an instance for this, including those which are non-insulted cavity wall dwellings? I've been in / around the construction industry for 3 decades, and not come across this phenomenon yet.

 

How can you defend a foundation which has an under-belly that is continuously purged with an abundant supply of freezing cold air?

 

It has a place, but "superior", definitely not?! 

[Gus Potter]

Beam and block floors have a time and a place. Sometimes I design them but always look at the whole job in the round.. maybe B&B is not just the best, sometimes it is totally the right way to go.. but you make savings that can allow you to add insulation elsewhere.

 

Some advantages:

 

1/ They don't rot like timber.

2/ They can help tie masonry walls together.. which saves money elsewhere and that saving can be used to better insulate the beam and block.

2/ They have mass which changes the dynamic response cf say timber joists.. if they B&B don't span too far they feel really solid.. too long a span and get it wrong as an designer they could make you feel "sea sick" particularly if the builder does not follow the installation guidelines. Long span and shallow depth B & B beams can develop a low frequency response which can be a bit.. odd... saying that for a low frequency response you would need to have say a very long corridor, it ain't going to happen walking round the bed to kiss your beloved. It takes a lot of effort to make a B & B floor bounce.

 

47 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

How can you defend a foundation which has an under-belly that is continuously purged with an abundant supply of freezing cold air?

By recognising and understanding how the solum ventilation works and designing / controlling it. Yes a few days a year it may reduce the floor temperature but often in the UK when we have low temperatures we have no wind.. heat loss is driven by temperature difference and air flow.

 

Also sometimes it's good to get a bit of cold air into the underbuilding... it kills the rot like a good frost! It's daft to rule out B & B until you know all the facts.

 

The best thing to do is to take a pragmatic appraoch.. think about where you live, the climate all year round, the temperature, where the wind and sun come from, think, sleep on it and try to understand what applies to your job.

 

Now that all sounds a bit philosophical but that is the starting point for good design.. and you never rule things in or out until you have got these basics understood.. well you can but you may well regret it.