Loxone controlled lights....is it always one power cable per light?

[Thorfun]

6 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

Can I ask where you're sourcing your posts, have a v similar idea for divider by dining area 

I’ve no idea as yet!! That decision is a long way away. 

[Dan F]

@Thorfun  We used these for a similair application.  Great little fittings, and come in various beam patterns and finnishes too.  Lighting designer we used swears by lightgrahix.  https://www.lightgraphix.co.uk/prod?product=LD43W / LD43A

 

They came with a 500mA constant-current driver which is good for up to 14 fittings connected in series.   In our case we are using DALI drivers which work fantastically with the raspberry pi hat that I got off of amazon that supports 256 devices.

 

On 06/04/2022 at 15:52, Thorfun said:

she did say that she can help with the sourcing/control/install etc but as that will cost us more money we're fine with figuring this out on our own

 

Is she specify specific fittings (I'd hope so)?  In our case our designer specified fittings and then worked with supplier to get things quoted up (with more of a discount we would have got direct).  We then simply paid the invoics.  Brand-wise, we've used Iguzzini, Orluna & Lightgrahix for everything (aside from the tunable white LED tape).

 

To answer you initial question, downlights are typically always supplied with a driver per-fitting and therefore you need power + control (DALI/DMX) to each driver.  Technically, you don't always need a driver for each and every fitting, but that is how all ours were supplied.  All the other types of fittings (low-level, uplighters, track-lighting) we have though, all came with a single driver for a series of fittings.  In this case it's the driver that needs power/control, and then you just have 2 low-voltage cores from fitting to fitting.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Dan F

[Thorfun]

15 hours ago, Dan F said:

We used these for a similair application.  Great little fittings, and come in various beam patterns and finnishes too.  Lighting designer we used swears by lightgrahix.  https://www.lightgraphix.co.uk/prod?product=LD43W / LD43A

 

They came with a 500mA constant-current driver which is good for up to 14 fittings connected in series.   In our case we are using DALI drivers which work fantastically with the raspberry pi hat that I got off of amazon that supports 256 devices.

thanks for the link. I'll add it to my bookmarks.

 

15 hours ago, Dan F said:

Is she specify specific fittings (I'd hope so)?  In our case our designer specified fittings and then worked with supplier to get things quoted up (with more of a discount we would have got direct).  We then simply paid the invoics.  Brand-wise, we've used Iguzzini, Orluna & Lightgrahix for everything (aside from the tunable white LED tape).

we said we didn't want this done as we don't really have the money but it's always an option when we get nearer the time to get her to do it for us. we'll see how the budget goes.

 

15 hours ago, Dan F said:

To answer you initial question, downlights are typically always supplied with a driver per-fitting and therefore you need power + control (DALI/DMX) to each driver.  Technically, you don't always need a driver for each and every fitting, but that is how all ours were supplied.  All the other types of fittings (low-level, uplighters, track-lighting) we have though, all came with a single driver for a series of fittings.  In this case it's the driver that needs power/control, and then you just have 2 low-voltage cores from fitting to fitting.

thanks. it's beginning to make sense.

[Thorfun]

On 16/04/2022 at 01:19, Dan F said:

In this case it's the driver that needs power/control, and then you just have 2 low-voltage cores from fitting to fitting.

qq....do the drivers sit in the ceiling void with the light fittings or are they centralised in the Loxone cabinet

[Dan F]

5 hours ago, Thorfun said:

qq....do the drivers sit in the ceiling void with the light fittings or are they centralised in the Loxone cabinet

In the ceiling for downlighters in our case. We have a 5-core cable which daisy chains all DALI downlights, each with their own local driver.  It may be different with DMX though.

 

Drivers for other low-level constant current fitting and tracks are all centalized (in loft or plant room).

 

LED drivers are a bit more of a mix as the fact that are constant voltage mean cable length is limited, so we have various locations around the house that have a 5-core (power + DALI) feed with a bunch of LED drivers co-located.

[Thorfun]

35 minutes ago, Dan F said:

In the ceiling for downlighters in our case. We have a 5-core cable which daisy chains all DALI downlights, each with their own local driver.  It may be different with DMX though.

 

Drivers for other low-level constant current fitting and tracks are all centalized (in loft or plant room).

 

LED drivers are a bit more of a mix as the fact that are constant voltage mean cable length is limited, so we have various locations around the house that have a 5-core (power + DALI) feed with a bunch of LED drivers co-located.

thanks. I think I have a lot more reading to do before I can fully get my head around all of this. I'm thinking that maybe I should just pay the lighting designer to do it and get her to talk to the electrician! it's not like I haven't got a lot of other things to do.

[Dan F]

On 17/04/2022 at 17:17, Thorfun said:

thanks. I think I have a lot more reading to do before I can fully get my head around all of this. I'm thinking that maybe I should just pay the lighting designer to do it and get her to talk to the electrician! it's not like I haven't got a lot of other things to do.

Any questions give me a shout.  Only thing is that designer/electrician may not be that familiar with Loxone control.  Did you decide between DALI, DMX,  Loxone Dimmers etc?

[MikeSharp01]

All these drivers in ceilings strikes me as a maintenance nightmare and a worry in 'parasitic' energy consumption. Not sure why the bulb cannot do all the work and just listen on the mesh, assuming the power is on. Seems obvious that the bulb has all the control, starts in a few hundred milliseconds, when power is applied, at a set brightness, or last brightness, and then gets itself on the mesh and awaits further brightness / colour commands from there.

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, Dan F said:

Any questions give me a shout.  Only thing is that designer/electrician may not be that familiar with Loxone control.  Did you decide between DALI, DMX,  Loxone Dimmers etc?

cheers. designer has used other control systems and DALI but she's not involved in the control of the lighting just the concept design. we have taken that concept design and will source light fittings and controls/drivers ourselves. pretty sure it'll be DMX. I already have the DMX module for Loxone and the DALI drivers are just more expensive. I also don't think we'll have loads of dimming lights as the design has been done in a way to not need them. and Loxone dimmers are just stupidly expensive.

 

only time will tell if my decisions were right!

[joth]

4 hours ago, Thorfun said:

Loxone dimmers are just stupidly expensive.

Agreed, but if you have the DMX module already I wouldn't even consider Loxone dimmers, get DIM rail mounted DMX mains or low voltage drivers

http://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html

 

[Dan F]

5 hours ago, Thorfun said:

pretty sure it'll be DMX. I already have the DMX module for Loxone and the DALI drivers are just more expensive. I also don't think we'll have loads of dimming lights as the design has been done in a way to not need them. and Loxone dimmers are just stupidly expensive.

With DMX are the dimmers centralized with each circuit wired back to the Loxone panel, much like with Loxone dimmers?  

 

[joth]

1 hour ago, Dan F said:

With DMX are the dimmers centralized with each circuit wired back to the Loxone panel, much like with Loxone dimmers?  

 

You can do it either way. Some people like to run DMX all over the place to have drivers in the ceiling void with the lighting fixture.

Personally I don't like that as DMX is a pig to diagnose if something goes wrong so my DMX universe is strictly internal to the Loxone cabinet. Per the title of this thread, I  use a start topology with one power cable back to the cabinet per light (or logical group of lights).

 

If I need any remote DMX actuators I'd put them on a separate DMX universe, probably via an IP to DMX bridge.

Another option is to use a DMX amplifier/splitter which at least separates branches from each other at the physical layer (separate termination resistor needed per branch, but not as clean as independent universes) 

 

[Rob99]

On 19/05/2022 at 14:16, joth said:

Agreed, but if you have the DMX module already I wouldn't even consider Loxone dimmers, get DIM rail mounted DMX mains or low voltage drivers

http://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html

 

A good option but unfortunately, when I contacted Mike at White Wing a few weeks ago to enquire about the AC dimmers he advised that due to component shortages they are unlikely to be available again until next year. Cheap chinese ones may be an interim option.