Tender Document/spreadsheet for Timber Frame Companies

[thefoxesmaltings]

I am in the process of getting our technical drawings completed by my architect - these will then be sent out to timber frame companies to tender for. I will be project managing and sourcing trades myself.

 

Appreciate that each timber frame company is slightly unique, and some may consider elements as 'standard' whereas others may consider elements as 'extra'.

 

Therefore, I'm looking for a 'belt and braces' tender document or spreadsheet which I can send out to all the timber frame companies (for them to fill out against), so that we can accurately compare quotes like-for-like between the TF companies to make sure all elements are included and quoted for, thus avoiding surprise additional costs as much as possible during the build.

 

I was hoping that with the vast amount of significantly more experienced individuals on here, that someone would have produced a thorough document/spreadsheet which they used to successfully tender against TF companies. If so, would it be out of the question to share it with me?

 

Much appreciated.

[Thorfun]

I did it the other way and just sent our BR drawings to various TF companies and then put the resulting quotes in to a spreadsheet and could then see which companies included stuff and which didn't etc. I could then go back to the ones that didn't include things and asked them to add that item.

 

I figured that TF companies should know what's required to build a house better than I did and so basically left it up to them to tell me what I needed as a base line.

 

but at the end of the day my decision on who to use came down to quality of work and gut feeling as to whether I could work with them more than price.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Thorfun

[thefoxesmaltings]

42 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

I did it the other way and just sent our BR drawings to various TF companies and then put the resulting quotes in to a spreadsheet and could then see which companies included stuff and which didn't etc. I could then go back to the ones that didn't include things and asked them to add that item.

 

I figured that TF companies should know what's required to build a house better than I did and so basically left it up to them to tell me what I needed as a base line.

 

but at the end of the day my decision on who to use came down to quality of work and gut feeling as to whether I could work with them more than price.

Fair enough, I guess that approach makes sense, too. Would you mind sharing the spreadsheet which has the most 'complete' list of items included? Even if you take out the actual numbers/quotes, that would be helpful to see.

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

Fair enough, I guess that approach makes sense, too. Would you mind sharing the spreadsheet which has the most 'complete' list of items included? Even if you take out the actual numbers/quotes, that would be helpful to see.

it's a pretty simple spreadsheet and I won't share but here's an image of the categories I got from the various TF companies.

 

 

hope this helps and there were a few unknowns in there as well so it is very hard to compare like-for-like as most people find which is why build quality was so much more important than cost for us. once we'd narrowed down to these 4 companies we did site visits for each to get an idea of how they work.

[thefoxesmaltings]

13 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

it's a pretty simple spreadsheet and I won't share but here's an image of the categories I got from the various TF companies.

 

 

hope this helps and there were a few unknowns in there as well so it is very hard to compare like-for-like as most people find which is why build quality was so much more important than cost for us. once we'd narrowed down to these 4 companies we did site visits for each to get an idea of how they work.

Thats helpful, thanks.

[Dreadnaught]

May I offer a different perspective.

 

I favour panellised factory-built frames, erected on site, not stick build. The next time I do a timber frame, I am considering not going to the TF manufacturers for tender. But instead going straight to the timber-frame designer. I

 

I have found a good designer via the company that erected my current frame and I would then work with the designer to tweak the frame to my satisfaction and then tender it among the frame manufacturers (including ones recommended by the designer, who knows many of them).

 

This reverses the typical process whereby the frame manufacturer chooses the designer for you.

 

18 hours ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

technical drawings completed by my architect

 

Are those drawings specialised frame designs? Or are you intending that the winning frame manufacturer translate the drawings in to another set of drawings of the frame design with their own chosen frame designer?

[thefoxesmaltings]

1 hour ago, Dreadnaught said:

Or are you intending that the winning frame manufacturer translate the drawings in to another set of drawings of the frame design with their own chosen frame designer?

 

Correct. Each TF company will charge for producing a set of drawings, and these are specialised to their systems. By my architect producing the technical drawings and building regs (based on a timber frame design), I am able to put thise out to tender to each TF company and they will be able to provide an accurate price for the frame. Once I've settled on a given TF company, they will then translate the technical drawings into their own system via their in house frame designer/structural engineer etc.

[Dreadnaught]

12 minutes ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

Each TF company will charge for producing a set of drawings, and these are specialised to their systems.

 

I know and have met some of the designers. And my architect was, I realised after I chosen her, an ex-TF designer for a number of the TF companies. And, as I mentioned, I had a very good relationship with the designer I ended up using.

 

Most TF company use outsourced timber-frame designers that work between multiple TF companies (as they do with engineers). Only the biggest ones (such as MBC) have them in-house. But even they are all ex-freelancers and even they have a lot of turnover. The TF systems are actually pretty generic. Any good TF designer can design for any system.

 

The downside of going by your approach in my opinion is that the some TF companies ration access to the designer. I found I wanted lots of access to mine to tweak the design over many months, and even went back to him during construction phase on a few small issues. I would not have been happy with restricted access via an "customer account manager".

[thefoxesmaltings]

59 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

 

I know and have met some of the designers. And my architect was, I realised after I chosen her, an ex-TF designer for a number of the TF companies. And, as I mentioned, I had a very good relationship with the designer I ended up using.

 

Most TF company use outsourced timber-frame designers that work between multiple TF companies (as they do with engineers). Only the biggest ones (such as MBC) have them in-house. But even they are all ex-freelancers and even they have a lot of turnover. The TF systems are actually pretty generic. Any good TF designer can design for any system.

 

The downside of going by your approach in my opinion is that the some TF companies ration access to the designer. I found I wanted lots of access to mine to tweak the design over many months, and even went back to him during construction phase on a few small issues. I would not have been happy with restricted access via an "customer account manager".

Either way, for an accurate fixed quote, I am going to have to pay a TF company or an architect to produce BR & technical drawings.

 

Each TF company I approached has given budget costings for the planning drawings, but they need technical drawings to fully cost and engineer the frame. The TF systems are pretty generic, yes (hence why my architect can produce the TF technical drawings), but there are still nuances between each company. I've contacted 22 companies, and all came back with different TF systems and structural engineering approaches.

All of the tweaking has been done through my architect (whom I trust) and the design will be set in stone when it lands in the inbox of the TF companies. I'm not looking for the TF company designer to tweak or change the design. If the TF company can assist with value engineering, that's fine. As such, I don't really care about getting lots of access to their "in-house designers". I just need the TF company to spec the design up in their TF system. We're going to be very strict and not make any changes during construction, once the frame has been finalised/manufactured.

[Dreadnaught]

 @thefoxesmaltings, 22 companies is an impressive number. Out does me. 

 

Your approach sounds good & thorough. Best wishes. An exciting journey lies ahead.

[Adrian Walker]

1 hour ago, thefoxesmaltings said:

Either way, for an accurate fixed quote, I am going to have to pay a TF company or an architect to produce BR & technical drawings.

 

Each TF company I approached has given budget costings for the planning drawings, but they need technical drawings to fully cost and engineer the frame. The TF systems are pretty generic, yes (hence why my architect can produce the TF technical drawings), but there are still nuances between each company. I've contacted 22 companies, and all came back with different TF systems and structural engineering approaches.

All of the tweaking has been done through my architect (whom I trust) and the design will be set in stone when it lands in the inbox of the TF companies. I'm not looking for the TF company designer to tweak or change the design. If the TF company can assist with value engineering, that's fine. As such, I don't really care about getting lots of access to their "in-house designers". I just need the TF company to spec the design up in their TF system. We're going to be very strict and not make any changes during construction, once the frame has been finalised/manufactured.

 

I do hope that you don't ask all 22 companies to quote, as that mean that the other 21 will have to pass that cost onto other customers. Accurate quotes take time and cost which someone has to pay.  That said I don't (and hope) that you are just buying on price only.  Enjoy your build

[thefoxesmaltings]

49 minutes ago, Adrian Walker said:

 

I do hope that you don't ask all 22 companies to quote, as that mean that the other 21 will have to pass that cost onto other customers. Accurate quotes take time and cost which someone has to pay.  That said I don't (and hope) that you are just buying on price only.  Enjoy your build

 

22 companies have provided budget estimations from the planning drawings. Naturally some are way out and so we will not be proceeding to ask them to fully quote based on the technical drawings.

It should go without saying that we are not buying on price only.