Extending a class Q , adding pump house and converting more land from agricultural to residential

[Neil999]

Hi we have class Q granted on a barn conversion. What we need however is to build a small pump house ( 2m x 3m)ish ) We want to build this out of breeze block and clad it to match the building. Also I have a few questions surrounding this/future changes if anyone can offer advice ? 

 

- Once we get the class Q building signed off how long until we are able to extend it e.g conservatory etc if at all ?  Do we still have PD rights ?

- Are we able to build a small out building  ( 2m x 3m)ish to house a pump house without further planning ? 

- If we wish to extend our "grounds" is there any way to do so without additional planning, and what are the chances of success based on experienece ?

 

Please not that our property is at the base of a small hill and is not overlooked or anywhere near any other buildings (middle of nowhere). We are also not in an AONB .

 

Thanks in advance. 

[IanR]

46 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

- Once we get the class Q building signed off how long until we are able to extend it e.g conservatory etc if at all ?  Do we still have PD rights ?

 

Any additional development, apart from PV, wind turbine or heat pump, will require a planning application as all other PD are removed by the Class Q

 

46 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

- Are we able to build a small out building  ( 2m x 3m)ish to house a pump house without further planning ? 

 

Officially no. If it fits the definition of a "building", it will require planning approval.

 

46 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

- If we wish to extend our "grounds" is there any way to do so without additional planning, and what are the chances of success based on experienece ?

 

Not officially. Class Q only permits a curtilage up to the size of the converted foot-print of the barn. Any further land you own remains in its original Use Class. Getting planning permission for a Change of Use to residential, for more agricultural land will likely be difficult as it allows the residential paraphernalia (sheds, temporary buildings, washing lines, residential fencing etc.) to expand, which LPA's are often sensitive to. Getting it recognised as amenity land, should be easier, but I'd question whether this practically allows you to do much else with it that its agricultural Use class would not permit.

 

46 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

Please not that our property is at the base of a small hill and is not overlooked or anywhere near any other buildings (middle of nowhere). We are also not in an AONB .

 

LPAs seldom get involved unless breaches are brought to their attention by neighbours. You need to judge if it's worth taking a risk.

Edited March 28, 2022 by IanR

[ToughButterCup]

53 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

... our property is at the base of a small hill and is not overlooked or anywhere near any other buildings (middle of nowhere)....

 

The answer immediately above is exactly what I would have said  (but less elegantly) . What's your risk appetite?

[Neil999]

Thanks Ian really appreciate the input and understand each response. 

 

I am relatively confident that my route forward will be to apply for full planning which will include additional residential grounds. My thoughts are to 

 

1. Accomodate a heat pump / battery (solar/wind) storage into the building  - (justification for the small pump/energy building)

2. Add a wind turbine further away from the house "within the new residential/garden footprint". Also add raised beds  -  (possibly justification for extending the residential garden)

3. Adding a flat roofed extension that houses part green roof, part solar  - (creating habitat and renewables)

 

Do these sound viable to you ? Can you reccomend any strategy for extending the garden as without doing so (within the next few years) i would have to build and sell which i do not really want to do ? 

 

When i moved in to the original house 5 years ago i put a playground in the field without planning permissions. My next door neighbours also extended their garden without planning permission, as have most people on my track. Id rather do everything properly to be honest as i plan on living here potentially for the rest of my life. I just find it hard to believe that there will never be an oportunity to have a bigger garden or build a workshop in the future, or create a playground etc.. without fighting the LPA.

 

Thanks. 

[Ferdinand]

It's worth reflecting how far permissible use of agricultural land will let you do what you want without PP.

 

eg 28 day exemption, things permitted as agricultural etc. 

[IanR]

57 minutes ago, Neil999 said:

... without fighting the LPA.

 

It may not be a fight, LPA's can be quite reasonable.

 

My experience is that they wish to restrict the spread of the domestic paraphernalia, in order to maintain the agricultural scene. They are more likely to be accommodating if you site any new domestic structures close to the dwellinghouse, visually shielded if possible, and use materials and finishes that do not look out of place in the setting.

 

If you already have neighbours extending their residential curtilages, the LPA may be less sensitive. ie. you can't disrupt a rural, agricultural setting, if it is already disrupted.

 

1 hour ago, Neil999 said:

Do these sound viable to you ? Can you reccomend any strategy for extending the garden

 

It's very dependant on the local setting and the LPA's attitude. The "pump house" and workshop sound too significant to take a risk on, so if I were you I'd start a conversation with the LPA. Informally if possible, the Officer that undertook your Class Q may be a good contact, or via a pre-planning advice request if not.

 

The garden could be tackled in the same manner your neighbours have, but if you are already submitting a planning app it will cost nothing to include an extension to the curtilage. Just keep the discussion going with the planning officer that is looking after the application, so that if they have an issue with say the garden extension, suggest swapping it to amenity land.

[Neil999]

Thanks Ian. What you say makes sense and I may be expecting the worst when there is no need. Ultimately my overall plans are to improve the appearance of the area and the location is completely out of site of everyone, even local walking trails. 

 

I guess the next step is to have some discussions with the LPA then. And pre planning advice does sound like a good route.

 

Thanks.

[LSB]

We have undertaken a class Q, but our planning kept our PD rights so it might be worth double checking.

This was included in our planning approval document.

That said, we have been told that we cannot extend our curtilage into our agricultural fields under any circumstances.

This is slightly odd as our access is through a field, which was approved, and I'm not sure how that can still be agricultural as it would be no use as either crops or grazing.

What we have done in this field used for access is plant over 200 trees, which will be lovely after I'm long gone, but are still very small.

This field also has some old sheds, block ones, which are very tatty, but will ultimately be converted to nice ones and although it will always stay agricultural it will increase the feeling of space.

 

One thing in your posts that is slightly contradictory is that you say you are not overlooked by anything, but then you say about neighbours extending into fields or is that a different property.

 

As others have said it does depend on your LPA, ours is very strict and fussy.

[gc100]

We have class Q, and then went for full planning as we wanted to add about 25% more length for 2x rooms and garage. They were basically ok with it provided it was all kept within the original shape and look and feel of the barn - ie just making it longer. 
However it had to go to committee as because but was full planning in open countryside. We had to present to 15 people - we used a planned consultant who only presented the facts within planning regs . All PD rights were removed . You need to talk to your planner and see if they are open to it.