Garage/workshop/music room - heating

[Kelvin]

Hi

 

We intend building a garage, workshop, music room as part of our house build. This will be one building with the garage workshop combined and the music room partitioned off. It won’t be integral to the house. I’m still deciding on the material structure to use. Brick and block is favoured due to noise. The question is how to heat it? The house will be heated by ASHP. The garage block will be next to the house. The options are to extend the underfloor heating to the music room big of the building or to have some form of air to air heat pump system. Assume the building will have insulated floor, walls, and roof. There’s no gas at the plot. 
 

What’s been your approach to heat a separate building from the main house? 

 

 

[Radian]

Snap! We recently completed an extension to our existing garage/workshop to provide an additional workshop and music room adding another 90m².

Yet to decide on heating though. Currently going through winter with a couple of 2kW convectors to see what energy use is likely to be. So far it's pretty close to the estimates for fabric losses. We hedged our bets by laying an UFH heating loop in the downstairs floor. ASHP is logical for us but placement is an issue. A2A is a better fit for upstairs which could also use a little cooling in the summer (a roof mounted PV would make sense with this) but noise is an issue.

 

If only the cost of electricity would reach parity with gas, then a cheap willis heater for the UFH would be just perfect!

[zzPaulzz]

Sorry, no answers from me as I have the same question.  Planning a new build which will have a separate garage-workshop so considering my options for heating and ventilation (including dust extraction). Any advice would be appreciated. 

[saveasteading]

I vote for this sort of thing,  and plenty of insulation. Simple, efficient, diy, cheap and will quickly warm the air.

[JohnMo]

My advise is don't connect to the same heat source as the house, unless usage patterns and heating rates are the same. I tried it with a summer house and the flow temperature required were too different. So although hooked up and flowing water, not much effect on the heating.

 

We are using an electric heater at the moment, but using more electrical energy heating a well insulated summer house, than the main house.

 

As @saveasteading says above would be my vote for heat.

 

@zzPaulzz

Dust extraction is another question, for a different section on the forum. I would raise a specific question on that.

[Canski]

I thought A2A units need to be installed by a FGAS certified installer ? I quite fancy one in my summerhouse even it morphs from a site office/ storage container. 

[JohnMo]

3 minutes ago, Canski said:

thought A2A units need to be installed by a FGAS certified installer

Doesn't mean its a bad idea. A gas boiler needs to be installed by a Gas safe installer, but doesn't stop people recommending them.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, Canski said:

thought A2A units need to be installed by a FGAS

I don't think so, but others know better than I. 

I took the photo off a Spanish/French  diy store website because I knew there would be loads.  €650 to buy, or €1,200 installed so that doesn’t sound difficult.

[oliwoodings]

Can recommend A2A in outbuildings, just had a Samsung two-room unit installed in our garden building for £1600, very pleased. Both cooling and heating are rapid.

[Kelvin]

On 30/10/2023 at 00:15, oliwoodings said:

Can recommend A2A in outbuildings, just had a Samsung two-room unit installed in our garden building for £1600, very pleased. Both cooling and heating are rapid.

Sounds the ticket. Which model? 

[oliwoodings]

They are Samsung Cebu units inside (WiFi connected, integrates with smart things) can't remember the model of the heat pump unit outside but I can get it tomorrow if you like.

[George]

You can get all-in-one through wall units. They cost a bit more than a split system and are slightly less efficient, but should be fit and go.

[oliwoodings]

8 hours ago, George said:

You can get all-in-one through wall units. They cost a bit more than a split system and are slightly less efficient, but should be fit and go.

I strongly considered one for my build and ended up going against it, primarily because we didn't want a heat pump or condenser running inside the room - very noisy. They also take up a lot of room, and require massive holes through the wall. In the end it only cost about £400 more for our two-room split unit including install.

[S2D2]

On 29/10/2023 at 12:31, Canski said:

I thought A2A units need to be installed by a FGAS certified installer ? I quite fancy one in my summerhouse even it morphs from a site office/ storage container. 

R290 units don't require FGAS as the GWP is so low. A professional install would have doubled the cost of mine.

[saveasteading]

12 minutes ago, oliwoodings said:

very noisy

Perhaps. But I'm sure there are quieter ones available.

 

14 minutes ago, oliwoodings said:

take up a lot of room

that's relative, but anything takes up some space. 

13 minutes ago, oliwoodings said:

massive holes through the wall.

Just a small copper pipe in and out, linking the units. 

So I'm wondering if we are thinking of the same thing. What size of hole do you mean?

[S2D2]

6 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Perhaps. But I'm sure there are quieter ones available.

 

that's relative, but anything takes up some space. 

Just a small copper pipe in and out, linking the units. 

So I'm wondering if we are thinking of the same thing. What size of hole do you mean?

I believe he's talking about the all in one units which have two big air ducts through the wall, rather than minisplits which have a ~65mm hole and the noisy stuff outside.

[oliwoodings]

8 hours ago, S2D2 said:

I believe he's talking about the all in one units which have two big air ducts through the wall, rather than minisplits which have a ~65mm hole and the noisy stuff outside.

Indeed. Something along the lines of: https://www.electriq.co.uk/p/iqool-smart12hp/electriq-iqoolsmart12hp

 

I actually ordered one of these to try out in our bedroom, but didn't quite appreciate how much volume it would take up on the wall, so returned it. I also didn't quite clock when ordering that I'd have had to core drill two 180mm holes in the front of our house 😂

[Kelvin]

On 31/10/2023 at 21:19, oliwoodings said:

They are Samsung Cebu units inside (WiFi connected, integrates with smart things) can't remember the model of the heat pump unit outside but I can get it tomorrow if you like.

Yes that would be helpful too. 
 

My issue is it’s a really big garage to heat. 65m²  with a high ridge line so it’s a big volume. When I’ve been working in it recently I’ve used a big electric rad which are good for heating the area around them so I as enough to take the chill off on the coldest day we’ve had so far. 

[S2D2]

2 hours ago, Kelvin said:

Yes that would be helpful too. 
 

My issue is it’s a really big garage to heat. 65m²  with a high ridge line so it’s a big volume. When I’ve been working in it recently I’ve used a big electric rad which are good for heating the area around them so I as enough to take the chill off on the coldest day we’ve had so far. 

It needs a heat loss calc but as you said assume insulated I don't see a 3.5kW minisplit struggling to heat the space at all. If you have a partitioned room you'd probably want a multisplit for ideal comfort though, I haven't seen a self-install R290 multisplit yet.

 

Intermittent use of a separate space is the perfect use case for A2A but costs can build if you need planning and installation etc. Most efficient running costs though.

[Kelvin]

The good news is I included A2A in my planning application for the garage so we’re covered there should I decide to do it