Solar trouble shooter

[SteamyTea]

If the country code for the inverter is set incorrectly, this can cause a lot of disconnection.

Seen that happen a few times. Especially with SMA, and they need an installer code to change it.

[Nickfromwales]

3 hours ago, dpmiller said:

@Nickfromwales why would it be Solaredge if he's got Tigo smart panels?

As an example of what kit it could have been that was “decided against”. If the smart panels were that smart, then the OP would be reading the output of each panel on their hub, would they not, and answering most of their own questions?

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Sounds like you've got the Tigo TS4 modules on each panel, but then you haven't got the gateway that they are suppose to all connect back to in order to work even connected up, so at the moment those Tigo modules will be doing absolutely zero. It needs the gateway in order to know which panels are dragging the string down due to shading.

That’s the ‘gizmo’ that should never have been allowed to be omitted by an over involved customer. The installer should have said that it’s not optional and priced to include it. 

[Dillsue]

4 hours ago, MikeGrahamT21 said:

Sounds like you've got the Tigo TS4 modules on each panel, but then you haven't got the gateway that they are suppose to all connect back to in order to work even connected up, so at the moment those Tigo modules will be doing absolutely zero. It needs the gateway in order to know which panels are dragging the string down due to shading.

Ive no hands on experience with Tigo optimisers, but AFAIK you dont need a gateway/TAP for them to optimise panel generation?? Happy to be corrected but I thought the gateway/TAP/CCA were all to allow remote monitoring and some other enhanced functions, other than power generation??

 

Remote monitoring would be an absolute god send for the OP!!

Edited February 17, 2022 by Dillsue

[MikeGrahamT21]

3 hours ago, Dillsue said:

Ive no hands on experience with Tigo optimisers, but AFAIK you dont need a gateway/TAP for them to optimise panel generation?? Happy to be corrected but I thought the gateway/TAP/CCA were all to allow remote monitoring and some other enhanced functions, other than power generation??

 

Remote monitoring would be an absolute god send for the OP!!

https://www.tigoenergy.com/product/ts4-a-o

 

TS4-A-O

Description

Optimization is a Flex MLPE function available as an integrated modular junction box base (TS4-O) or as an add-on unit (TS4-A-O). Design using unequal string lengths, mixed orientations, or areas of mismatch. Install in shaded areas with a reduced setback ratio. In addition to optimization, the TS4-A-O enables module level monitoring, and rapid shutdown in compliance with NEC 2014, 2017, 2020.

Functions

• Optimization
• Monitoring
• Rapid Shutdown

Features and benefits

• Suitable for up to 700W solar modules
• The higher performance optimizer with Predictive IV Technology (PIV)
• The ONLY optimizer with selective deployment
• Includes the benefits of Safety & Monitoring
• Meets US NEC rapid shutdown requirements
• Optimizes right out of the box
• Shade and age tolerance to maximize lifetime yield
• Works wirelessly with the TAP & CCA

Configuration

1 module per TS4

Required

CCA + TAP
 

Says the CCA and TAP is required on their website.

 

we are also assuming that the OP has got the optimisation tigo ts4 modules as well and not one of the other versions

[Dillsue]

I think the TAP and CCA are required to get full functionality of monitoring and shutdown. If the TAP and CCA were required for optimisation, the OP wouldnt have any generation atall??

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Dillsue said:

I think the TAP and CCA are required to get full functionality of monitoring and shutdown. If the TAP and CCA were required for optimisation, the OP wouldnt have any generation atall??

Down to 1v if open circuit, but I think they will allow full operation when they see the inverter. 

[dnoble]

On 16/02/2022 at 19:51, Dillsue said:

Just realised that you said in your first post that the panels were "shade free" yet the installer makes allowance for shading and specifically refers to a tree shading the array????????

There is not any tree shade on the panels except earring in the morning when the Sun is low. 

 

On 17/02/2022 at 09:27, Carrerahill said:

I edited my own post to add the above line and seem to have deleted the original post, I shall post again below:

 

Perhaps the OP @dnoble could start by answering the above and posting some photos then we can start to chase this down.

 

Unless I am mistaken we still don't actually have a system breakdown, just snippets of information in insolation, and as a group we are going round in circles with the same thoughts and assumptions. The OP is looking for a specialist, I doubt he needs a specialist as the collective minds of this forum can almost certainly unravel the details here with the only exception being if we do decide there is an issue. 

 

OP states that the panels were self-installed, so all the details must be easy enough to list.

 

I posted what I think is a good starting point and it appears to have fallen into the ether. 

 

I think it is fair to say that when people take their time to answer it is worth exploring said answer or at least acknowledge it.

 

Rant over.

Sorry the info provided is inadequate. To be fair my original post was to try and find for an expert who could do a site visit. It's a complicated problem with a few issues and I wasn't expecting folk here to fix it easily.

[SteamyTea]

5 minutes ago, dnoble said:

It's a complicated problem with a few issues and I wasn't expecting folk here to fix it easily

Or it might be a simple problem.

What makes you think it is complicated.

And what make of Inverter have you got.

[dnoble]

Hi Steamy Tea, It's a;

PV-I-SGL-6.0-SP

Solis 6.0 Single Phase with DC ( 110AD0183150020 )

[Dillsue]

2 hours ago, dnoble said:

There is not any tree shade on the panels except earring in the morning when the Sun is low. 

 

Sorry the info provided is inadequate. To be fair my original post was to try and find for an expert who could do a site visit. It's a complicated problem with a few issues and I wasn't expecting folk here to fix it easily.

The sun is low where your tree is to the south east of an array in the winter when generation is at its lowest so shading will have little impact.  In late spring, summer and early autumn the sun is fairly high to the south east of an array when generation is at its highest so shading has a greater impact. Without details its impossible to know how shading may affect your generation but its unlikely to be insignificant if your installer has raised it as an issue and advised to fit optimisers.

 

We have 75% of our PV facing SE and a tree opposite that array would undoubtedly cut our production 

 

If youre drawing a blank with local experts willing to check out your system, seems that online forum support would be a great second choice to shed some light on your issue(s).

Edited February 18, 2022 by Dillsue

[Nickfromwales]

18 hours ago, dnoble said:

To be fair my original post was to try and find for an expert who could do a site visit. It's a complicated problem with a few issues and I wasn't expecting folk here to fix it easily.

Have you not contacted a different PV installer local to you?
FYI, there are lots of PV installers, but very few ‘experts’ tbh.

I’ve lost track…..do you have an app / portal to see each panel? Or are you only able to glean base statistics from the inverter? How much was / is the “unwanted gizmo” as that may cost the same as a call out and identify what’s going on and give you far better ongoing monitoring / observations. My guess is, that any PV ‘expert’ would insist in removing and checking the panels to be able to assure you / themselves that all is correct / reliable. You’re going to be spending money either way, so if it was me I’d want the most amount of information available to me, prior to, which says get your monitoring up and running to the best it can be and then report back here with that info for any further possible assistance. 
Or pick up the phone and start getting second opinions……

[SteamyTea]

18 hours ago, dnoble said:

Hi Steamy Tea, It's a;

PV-I-SGL-6.0-SP

Solis 6.0 Single Phase with DC ( 110AD0183150020 )

I am struggling to find that model.

But looking at the manual for Solis 4G range, there are user/installer functions that allow you to look at historic data and change settings, including the country standard settings i.e. voltage and frequency limits.

Getting this checked out does not involve anything more than pressing a few buttons, no need for scaffolding yet.

Edited February 19, 2022 by SteamyTea

[JohnMo]

From the user manual.

 

Optimization and Long Strings features don’t require communication accessories for operation.

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

From the user manual.

 

Optimization and Long Strings features don’t require communication accessories for operation.

 

But it is needed for system analysis.

Without more information we’re pissing into the wind here, sorry. 

[JohnMo]

To get system analysis as an after fit he would need to access the bar codes from each optimiser.

 

To enable Monitoring and Safety features:
• Collect the TS4 removable barcode label from the PV module junction box, install and commission communication accessories..

[Dillsue]

The OP says he collected all the serial numbers so adding the necessary gateway and setting up web monitoring should be doable, but...

 

If theres a generation meter its easy enough to see if the annual generation aligns with the 4700kwh forecast provided by the installer. Depending on orientation the installers forecast aligns with PVGIS forecast for Bristol.

 

@Dan. Is there a generation meter and have you got the last few years figures??

Edited February 19, 2022 by Dillsue

[Nickfromwales]

@dnoble ?

[dnoble]

3 hours ago, Dillsue said:

The OP says he collected all the serial numbers so adding the necessary gateway and setting up web monitoring should be doable, but...

 

If theres a generation meter its easy enough to see if the annual generation aligns with the 4700kwh forecast provided by the installer. Depending on orientation the installers forecast aligns with PVGIS forecast for Bristol.

 

@Dan. Is there a generation meter and have you got the last few years figures??

Hi Would the generation meter be part of the smart ,meter? 

The 2.5 kWh figure comes form looking at the MyEnergi Eddi unit and also the zappi one which gives a readout from the panels whilst they're generating. I don' t have a cumulative one (and this may not be accurate as the panel are switched off on windy wet days to avoid the fusing problem. 

Regarding shading the panels are I full direct sun facing south with no tree shadows on them when they are generating the 2.4Kwh which is why I don't really agree with the installers tree comments (he just saw some tall trees near the house and assumed/scapegoated them, I suspect) 

Below are some shots of the inverter I sent the installed July 2019 when I initially tried to explore this. I think it demonstrated that both strings were generating.\

 

[Dillsue]

If the smart meter you are talking about is the main household meter, then no its not the generation meter. The household meter records the electricity coming in and out of the house. 

Theres a figure of 2.5kwh that you are getting from your Eddi. If that figure is actually KWH rather than KW its not a snap shot of what the panels are generating at the time you look at the Eddi. The intantaneous generation figures will be in W or KW like the figure of 1617W shown on your inverter display. 1617W(1.617KW) is the actual generation at that moment in time(10 17?) whereas the 2.5KWH is the quantity of electricity generated over a period of time. Is the 2.5 figure KWH or KW?

 

I dont know your inverter but the solaredge inverters we have have a cumulative total generation figure in them so you can read the total generation from since installation dirdct from the inverter. It may be worth having a look to see if you can get that figure from your inverter. That figure will be much more representative of how your system is performing than looking at random snapshot figures.

[Dillsue]

In the installers email to you with the projected generation figures,  he says you can compare the projected figures to those on the solar generation meter.  That suggests youve got a generation meter?? That meter is exactly what you need to be looking at to see how your system is performing!