Guttering over a boundary fence.

[smaugc6]

Hi everyone,

 

First post! Last year I bought my second house and have decided to take it down to brick and renovate it from scratch. I’ve have been project managing the whole process and learning as I go along. I’m 27 and had no previous knowledge on buildings etc but the whole  process has really opened up an interest in everything DIY as well as shorten my hairline! 
 

Unfortunately I’ve run into a bit of a civil dispute between my neighbour. My house is a 1930’s semi and has not been extended but does have a lean to conservatory. This conservatory has been established since just before 1980 according the the previous owner (owned since the house was built 1935!). The conservatory has guttering which extended beyond the fence by approximately 6-8 inches. During the conveyance of the house this issue was not bought up nor any disputes or prior agreements with neighbours. My neighbour bought his house roughly 4 years ago. My deeds state that I own and  maintain the boundary/ fence which is in question. 

 

I decided to replace the old plastic roof of the conservatory with an EPDM roof whilst raising it by approximately 1 foot. The guttering was also reused by simply lifting it up by 1 foot and attaching it onto the new EPDM facia. At the time I explained what I intended to do to my new neighbour he was happy for this to go ahead and so I asked for a party boundary agreement - he refused to sign this. Approximately 5-6 months after the work was completed by builders, he raised the issue that the guttering is over then fence. 
 

He is raising the issue that the guttering is over onto his land and would like this rectified. It is not causing him any problem or pollution.  It can be rectified by shortening the overhang of the EPDM roof and I am willing to pay this to keep our relationship amicable - I plan to live here for the next 5-10 years. However I fear he has no interest in maintaining a healthy relationship.
 

I’ve spoken briefly with a solicitor who says this is not a law of the land issue and simply a civic issue to which the council should be informed and an independent adjudicator could make a decision.  
 

I’d like to know your opinions and thoughts on this. Am I completely in the wrong and is this considered trespass? Is he in the wrong and should I refuse / take this through the above process? 

[joe90]

In my opinion, yes your guttering should not oversail his property, but it existed before with no problems and he did not object to your refurbishment. He is just being unfair in that he has changed his mind after the work was done. Rather than fall out with him and in the interest of keeping the piece (neighbours can be hell) I would move it if you can. You could argue that he agreed to your work prior to having it done but I don’t suppose you have it in writing?.

[Onoff]

Is your neighbour:

 

A) Elderly

B) Retired

C) Got **** all else to do

D) Likes to have the last word

E) Frets about the small things

F) Possibly a member on here

 

?

 

?

[smaugc6]

Thanks for the replies. I don’t have it in writing. The builder who completed the works also had his approval however I doubt that would stand for much. 

 

My gut feeling is to move it. 
 

C,D and E I’m afraid.

Possibly also a G) Swindler

 

I know that he replaced the fence during the conveyance as another neighbour informed me when I first checked the house out after the sale. However I have no way of proving it. I also don’t know if this alleged movement of the fence has caused the guttering to go over slightly before I started my works. As aforementioned, it wasn’t something picked up during the conveyance and the previous owner has dementia. I have pictures of the guttering immediately  before and after the renovation. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by smaugc6

[joe90]

20 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Is your neighbour:

 

A) Elderly

B) Retired

C) Got **** all else to do

D) Likes to have the last word

E) Frets about the small things

F) Possibly a member on here

 

?

 

?

All the above (especially one particular member here ?)

[dangti6]

Don't suppose you'd be fortunate enough to have photos from the for sale listing showing the original fence/boundary line at all?

[saveasteading]

14 minutes ago, smaugc6 said:

I know that he replaced the fence

He replaced the boundary which was yours. He had not complained that the gutter was over the boundary before, therefore we can assume it was not.

He has attempted to extend his land onto yours, to the extent of being under the gutter.

Therefore ask him to move the fence back to where it was.....or let it be.

 

[smaugc6]

8 minutes ago, dangti6 said:

Don't suppose you'd be fortunate enough to have photos from the for sale listing showing the original fence/boundary line at all?

Unfortunately not. It did bother me initially however I have been through this and there really is no way to tell. Google earth imagery is unclear as the garden hasn’t been maintained since 2012 and the bushes block the fence view.  I didn’t want to stir up a fuss and took it on the chin and moved on about it. 

 

I do trust the neighbour as she has been supportive and accommodating throughout my renovation all whilst enduring the noise etc from the works. She also has no reason to lie. 

[saveasteading]

Sometimes there are other clues such as front wall and gate positions, and old fences down the back garden.

 

Look, kind neighbour, the boundary goes from here to there and the fence is wrong, but hey I wont make you move it and you allow my gutters.

[epsilonGreedy]

1 hour ago, smaugc6 said:

I do trust the neighbour as she has been supportive and accommodating throughout my renovation all whilst enduring the noise etc from the works. She also has no reason to lie.

 

 

Assuming that other people are as rational and reasonable as you in a boundary dispute is your first mistake.

 

2 hours ago, smaugc6 said:

I’ve spoken briefly with a solicitor who says this is not a law of the land issue and simply a civic issue to which the council should be informed and an independent adjudicator could make a decision.  
 

 

I think your solicitor said it is a "civil" law matter and not a criminal law matter. So don't worry that the long arm of the law will come knocking one day in the form of a uniformed police officer demanding that you remove the gutter. To enforce a claim for trespass your neighbour would have to initiate a civil claim against you and that would cost her money and take ages to work through the legal system, however at the end of the day the dispute would be adjudicated subject civil law.

 

The judicial system hates boundary disputes and looks for evidence that neighbours have tried their best to resolve matters prior to Court proceedings. So be on best behaviour and maintain a log of interactions.  

 

There is a convoluted section of boundary property law that involves a concept called "adverse possession". This usually involves fences or hedges that get moved and after many years the effective working boundary is deemed to have become the adjusted legal boundary. I don't think invasion of air space by a gutter is a route to claiming adverse possession in your favour. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by epsilonGreedy