Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 we had out GSE Trays and solar panels installed the other day and where they are fixed to the battens the slate tiles are sitting erect (see photo) anyone got any ideas how to flatten them down and keep them there? the roofer is due back on Tuesday so I'll speak to him then but I was wondering if anyone has come across this before and how best to deal with it. I think the the problem is that we were told to cut eaves tiles below the flashing and the panels are sitting right on the edge of the tiles which is lifting them up. it's frustrating as this is what we were told to do by the company dealing with our Solar PV. They are very visible from the ground level and I know will annoy me every time I look up at the roof. if the roofer had only cut the tiles a little longer or the PV panels were a little shorter we probably wouldn't have this issue. fyi, the solar guys said that even when they loosened the bottom fixing the tiles still stayed lifted and that they've not seen slates do that before. They suggested silicone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 they have fitted the panels too low and the weight of them is kicking up the tiles. You should see the bottom flashing. Out of interest can you show a picture of the top as well. We had the same panels and tray, i really didnt like the sticky flashing and used lead instead. Page 17 of the manual shows the correct installation method. https://www.gseintegration.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IR_EN_MI-v11.3-4.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: they have fitted the panels too low and the weight of them is kicking up the tiles. You should see the bottom flashing. Out of interest can you show a picture of the top as well. We had the same panels and tray, i really didnt like the sticky flashing and used lead instead. Page 17 of the manual shows the correct installation method. https://www.gseintegration.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/IR_EN_MI-v11.3-4.pdf thanks for the manual, I'll take a read and send it to the company. I don't have a photo of the top and it's a bit dark now to go out walking on the scaffolding! I'll try and get a photo tomorrow. we had a few issues with the install already in that the wrong size GSE Trays were ordered and only discovered once they were all fitted. Also, we fitted a product called Fast Flash (the flashing you can see in the photo). both myself and the roofer were pretty impressed with it. it went down easily and looks really good. But then the fitters turned up and stuck some of the horrible corrugated stuff on top of it! I then removed it and they've used the corrugated stuff at the top but it won't be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 The top shouldnt have sticky flashing. They come with a metal tray that sits on the top edge of the panels, the slates/tiles are then cut into to it flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: The top shouldnt have sticky flashing. They come with a metal tray that sits on the top edge of the panels, the slates/tiles are then cut into to it flush. we have the metal trays down the side. the manual you sent does say (p29) you can replace the top flashings with a flexible strip. also, it looks from the manual that the trays were installed correctly as they aren't covering the flashing and the flashing is visible below the trays: it's just the pv panels themselves that are hanging down over the flashing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 It’s odd that the slates only kick up where the joins between panels are ? the panels themselves don’t seem to be causing the problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thorfun said: we have the metal trays down the side. the manual you sent does say (p29) you can replace the top flashings with a flexible strip. also, it looks from the manual that the trays were installed correctly as they aren't covering the flashing and the flashing is visible below the trays: it's just the pv panels themselves that are hanging down over the flashing The bottom of the panels should not be in contact with the tiles as it will push them up when the panels are tightened down. it does show this clearly in the manual. strange they have given you the correct side flashing but not the top, if you look at page 29 there is a metal flash at the top onto which the sticky crap goes otherwise you would have to stick it directly onto the panels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, joe90 said: It’s odd that the slates only kick up where the joins between panels are ? the panels themselves don’t seem to be causing the problem thats where the pressure is when they are tightened down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, joe90 said: It’s odd that the slates only kick up where the joins between panels are ? the panels themselves don’t seem to be causing the problem I can't be sure but I think they only kicked up once the fixing clamps were installed. so I can only presume that the pressure of the clamps is lifting the slates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Dave Jones said: strange they have given you the correct side flashing but not the top, if you look at page 29 there is a metal flash at the top onto which the sticky crap goes otherwise you would have to stick it directly onto the panels! ahhh...then maybe they've done this. I didn't see that and I've not climbed up to look that closely at the top. i'll take a look tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Thorfun said: ahhh...then maybe they've done this. I didn't see that and I've not climbed up to look that closely at the top. i'll take a look tomorrow. i would think they have 100% as it wouldnt be watertight otherwise. just need to get the row of tiles at the bottom cut shorter so the panels doesn't sit on them. Strange the trays are so short it looks a good 150mm as if the panels were not the right size for the trays. Oh and every panel should be earthed as well as cant see any earth wires in the pics. Edited December 3, 2021 by Dave Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, Dave Jones said: i would think they have 100% as it wouldnt be watertight otherwise. just need to get the row of tiles at the bottom cut shorter so the panels doesn't sit on them. Strange the trays are so short it looks a good 150mm as if the panels were not the right size for the trays. found this photo that shows the panels do not fully cover the flashing. I'm really not sure how we can cut the tiles any shorter as we'd have to take all the trays up and the flashing and pretty much start over again. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) One of the pics before the panels are fitted show vertical rails where the joins are, I would guess the rails are pressing on those tiles causing them to lift. Edited December 3, 2021 by joe90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, joe90 said: One of your pics before the panels are fitted show vertical rails where the joins are, I would guess the rails are pressing on those tiles causing them to lift. yeah. makes sense and I would agree. but they need to be clamped down and so I don't see how this can be resolved easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 not all the trays just the bottom ones are wrong. You have almost a whole slate under the bottom this has to go and be replaced with the flashing/lead so it sits down. The sides are fine as you cut them into the metal flashing try same as the top. Just take out that whole bottom row sitting underneath the panels and replace with a flashing kit per the manual and it will be fine. Lead looks so much better than the crinkled stuff that comes in the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Thorfun said: yeah. makes sense and I would agree. but they need to be clamped down and so I don't see how this can be resolved easily. Without seeing it and being there I don’t know but I would bet the rails are causing this, perhaps they could be shortened a bit to stop them resting on the tiles or raised a bit ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, joe90 said: Without seeing it and being there I don’t know but I would bet the rails are causing this, perhaps they could be shortened a bit to stop them resting on the tiles or raised a bit ?♂️ hmm...might be able to slip a 5mm plastic packer underneath them I guess. could be worth a try and something I could do without too much difficulty (although I'll probably wait until the roofer is back on-site!). it's a good idea and I'll discuss it with him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: not all the trays just the bottom ones are wrong. You have almost a whole slate under the bottom this has to go and be replaced with the flashing/lead so it sits down. The sides are fine as you cut them into the metal flashing try same as the top. Just take out that whole bottom row sitting underneath the panels and replace with a flashing kit per the manual and it will be fine. Lead looks so much better than the crinkled stuff that comes in the kit. and this is the issue. we slated and flashed to the specifications and requirements that were given to us. we were going to use lead but then the company sent the fast flash and it looks really good. that crinkly stuff is horrible but it won't ever be seen at the top so I don't care that it's there. it's very easy to say 8 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: Just take out that whole bottom row sitting underneath the panels and replace with a flashing kit per the manual and it will be fine but that's another day for the Solar installers to be on-site to remove the panels and trays and then to coordinate the roofer to come back once that's done to remove the slates and then put more flashing down but the scaffolding has to come down in a week as the doors and windows are arriving and so I don't think that solution is feasible (although I'm not discounting it and will speak to the consulting company about it). this is just another one of those self-build hiccups that I'd love to have the time and money to get sorted out properly but I'm just not sure that's going to be possible. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 you don't have to remove the trays, just take off the locking clips on the bottom row panels so you can prop up the end of the panels, you can leave the existing flashing if you like just pull out the tiles from underneath it and relocate them below the panels and redo the flashing. Its a couple hours work to get it right and avoid bodging with packers etc. If its any consolation when I did ours the panels had to come off completely as the sparky didnt tell me about the earth wire that has to be clamped to every panel so i feel your frustration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 @Thorfun you say you slated the roof as specified by the panel suppliers, therefore it’s their responsibility to fit their panels so they don’t cause an issue, get their take on the problem (and report back). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 20 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: If its any consolation when I did ours the panels had to come off completely as the sparky didnt tell me about the earth wire that has to be clamped to every panel so i feel your frustration! errr.....I didn't see them fit earth wires to each panel. oh ****! where would those earth wires end up as, from what I can see, we only have 2 x pairs of cables (one from each string) where the inverter is going to go but no earthing wire that I could see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 @thorfun I might be doing the same GSE/natural slate install soon. Can I ask if your roof design with counter battens was chosen to increase the air gap under the panels? I am still a but nervous at the thought of exposing the underfelt to the heat under a PV panel with just a 25mm air gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 Just now, epsilonGreedy said: @thorfun I might be doing the same GSE/natural slate install soon. Can I ask if your roof design with counter battens was chosen to increase the air gap under the panels? I am still a but nervous at the thought of exposing the underfelt to the heat under a PV panel with just a 25mm air gap. the counter battens was chosen so I could fully fill the rafters with mineral wool insulation and nothing to do with the solar panels. heat on the membrane never even crossed my mind ?♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thorfun said: the counter battens was chosen so I could fully fill the rafters with mineral wool insulation and nothing to do with the solar panels. heat on the membrane never even crossed my mind ?♂️ Everything crosses my mind from rats chewing my mains water feed under ground to a tornado sucking up lead flashing from my roof. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, Thorfun said: errr.....I didn't see them fit earth wires to each panel. oh ****! where would those earth wires end up as, from what I can see, we only have 2 x pairs of cables (one from each string) where the inverter is going to go but no earthing wire that I could see. page 21, check with whoever will be signing off the electrics.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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