Novice to extension building - Deciding to project manage or not?

[Pamela]

 

Hi from West Lothian, Scotland

 

Have planning and building warrant sign off for a single-story side extension (roughly 74 m2) and part remodel of existing 1950’s bungalow in West Lothian, Scotland. Next stage is deciding to either project manage or ask Architect to take this on.

 

Ideally, we would like to hire a main contractor to build the extension to watertight/ weathertight stage which will have an agreed start and end date. Thereafter we are content to do the internal works ourselves alongside other trades, when needed. For this part we are flexible about project finish times as we are aware that material costs are increasing and this is a way, we can offset some of this. We appreciate the pros and cons of this route.

 

It is our intention to produce the contract/tender paperwork and we have seen on other websites the amount of paperwork that would accompany an invitation. However, what are the basic requirements that we need and is there anywhere we can see completed templates to give an idea of what level of detail is required? Currently looking at a JCT contract.

 

In the above situation who would be responsible for the CDM Reg? Us or the main contractor?

 

Apart from the paperwork what else is involved in a project similar to ours?  Timelines and pitfalls? For example, we are aware to record any amendments/suggestions by builders that we agree to so as to evidence ‘extra’ work for contract and payment purposes but are there other things that we need to consider? With regards to timelines – how long should we be considering for the tender process itself as well as the works if the plan was to commence March/April 2022. Any guidance on this is much appreciated.

[Marvin]

Is this a help for you:

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg411.pdf

 

You seem to have responsibilities if this information is correct north of the border.

 

Good luck.

 

[Gus Potter]

Hello Pamela.

 

That's you up and running now!

 

Hopefully this will give you some food for thought, even if to rule things out. For all the information that is provided on a warrant drawing is particular to Scotland, but hopefully other BH members in the UK may find something of use.

 

"Have planning and building warrant sign off for a single-story side extension (roughly 74 m2) and part remodel of existing 1950’s bungalow in West Lothian, Scotland. Next stage is deciding to either project manage or ask Architect to take this on."

 

Yes this decision crops regularly. I imagine you have asked your Architect what the project management fee will be and what the fee will be to produce a full tender package of information. As a rough guide expect this to be at least if not more than you have already paid your designers to get planning and warrant.

 

To get your head round this the building warrant drawings are prepared so as to satisfy the requirements of the Scottish Building regs.. they are not full construction drawings. Some warrant drawings will be more detailed than others depending on the approach the Architect/ SE has taken and what level of input and drawing detail an SE has provided.

 

A starting point here is to look at what level of drawing information you have and if you are able to use this as a basis for a contract without exposing yourself to too much risk.. say by way of extras or the contractor swapping materials / doing something that may compromise the structure for example.

 

Ideally, we would like to hire a main contractor to build the extension to watertight/ weathertight stage which will have an agreed start and end date. Thereafter we are content to do the internal works ourselves alongside other trades, when needed. For this part we are flexible about project finish times as we are aware that material costs are increasing and this is a way, we can offset some of this. We appreciate the pros and cons of this route.

 

For your particular set up (we do this in the central belt of Scotland) what about having a chat with your SE. I'm reading between the lines and guessing. What can work is that you say to the SE.. look we want to do as much as we can ourselves but need to know if the founds / main structure is ok. What will you charge to update your drawings for tender.. the devil in in the SE detail and can you make say three or so visits to site to check:

 

1/ The ground is ok before they cast the founds

2/ Once the underbuilding is up to drop by and just have a look

3/ Come back once the main structure is up but before anything is covered up

4/ Be available should the builder just want to give you a quick call if there is something they are not sure about.

5/ Hard to ask this but once you have a rappore with the SE.. be like our "Dad" and if we get stuck give us a few free pointers.

 

It's a halfway house but with a bit of thought and effort on your side it can work.

 

In terms of the JCT contarcts I assume you have had a look but have posted links to the ones; homeowners with or without consultant.

 

With consultant

https://www.constructionbooks.net/jct-contracts-2016/jct-homeowner-contracts/jct-build-contract-and-consultancy-agreement-for-a-home-owneroccupier-2021-9780414098282.aspx

 

No consultant

https://www.constructionbooks.net/jct-contracts-2016/jct-homeowner-contracts/jct-building-contract-for-a-home-owneroccupier-2021-9780414098275.aspx

 

It is our intention to produce the contract/tender paperwork and we have seen on other websites the amount of paperwork that would accompany an invitation. However, what are the basic requirements that we need and is there anywhere we can see completed templates to give an idea of what level of detail is required? Currently looking at a JCT contract.

 

You'll be hard pushed to find this as much is intellectual property of the designers. There is some generic stuff on the web. Why not go back to your Architect / SE and say, if we pay a little can you advise. That said there is good generic info on the web.

 

"In the above situation who would be responsible for the CDM Reg? Us or the main contractor?

 

Depends on the contract but if you go for the homeowner with no consultant then the contractor is liable for the CDM. The link below to the HSE helps set the mood re CDM for a homeowner doing an extension with no consultant. Well worth a read.

 

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/areyou/client.htm

 

Apart from the paperwork what else is involved in a project similar to ours?  Timelines and pitfalls? For example, we are aware to record any amendments/suggestions by builders that we agree to so as to evidence ‘extra’ work for contract and payment purposes but are there other things that we need to consider? With regards to timelines – how long should we be considering for the tender process itself as well as the works if the plan was to commence March/April 2022. Any guidance on this is much appreciated.

 

Great point here. build a rappore with your builder, it's really important as they are in and working on your house.. you can even make new friends.. just like a lot of folk do through work.. but. Take loads of photographs on a daily basis if you can, record the weather and put absolutely everything in writing. This can stop you falling out in a serious way.

 

Some good builders I know (central Scotland belt) are booked up for the next 9 months at least so 2022 sounds sensible. Also, material prices will hopefully have stabilized a bit by then.

The best time to be starting founds our way (I'm in East Kilbride) seems to be May time.. had some great weather this time of year recently.

 

 

[Pamela]

Marvin, thanks for taking the time to respond. I’ll certainly will take a look at that link and digest the information. Many thanks again.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Pamela
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[Pamela]

Gus, many thanks for your detailed response. I will take time to consider what you have said but if I have any follow up questions, I hope you don’t mind if I can ask for some of your time and knowledge? I know .... a bit cheeky but if I don’t ask, I don’t get. .... habit of a lifetime! At this moment if you are aware of any decent builders I’d be interested to know names.

[Adsibob]

Take your time on the spec. Be as detailed as possible, specifying exact build ups for every wall, floor and ceiling. Think about all the little details that will increase costs. E.g. If you want everything taped up to achieve a level of airtightness, include that in the spec and work out got many linear metres of taping will be required. 

Much better to tender on the basis of a very comprehensive detail, then get a price for a project done to a vague standard.

i found the RIBA contract much easier to work with than a JCT.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Adsibob

[Temp]

At the moment it appears difficult to find trades so a price contractor that employs one or two full time staff might be worth considering.

[Pamela]

Adsibob - thank you for taking the time to respond and offering such great info. I do wonder though if going to the finite detail could be ‘off putting’ for some builders. Or is this me being silly? Personally I’m with you, as I like to be thorough but I don’t want to be seen as so rigid, if that makes sense. How do I find balance but not put myself at risk?

[Pamela]

Temp thanks for letting me know this. 

[Mike]

2 hours ago, Pamela said:

I do wonder though if going to the finite detail could be ‘off putting’ for some builders.

Hopefully - those are some of the builders you don't want.

 

The others you don't want are those that read the specification & drawings and then ignore them (through ignorance, carelessness or wilful corner-cutting) - which is why it's a very good idea to have someone qualified (architect or otherwise) overseeing the works, if you don't know the industry.

[Adsibob]

On 13/11/2021 at 16:02, Pamela said:

Adsibob - thank you for taking the time to respond and offering such great info. I do wonder though if going to the finite detail could be ‘off putting’ for some builders. Or is this me being silly? Personally I’m with you, as I like to be thorough but I don’t want to be seen as so rigid, if that makes sense. How do I find balance but not put myself at risk?

Any builders that are put off your spec are builders you don’t want to work with. Specify what is important: detailed insulation build ups, airtightness measures, roof and wall structure, any soundproofing you want, the floor and wall finishes you want, if tiles whether or not they need sealing, where you are painting how many coats you want etc. Much better to get accurate prices from builders willing to do the work, than to tender for something vague that will only go up in price once you tell them what you really want.

 We had a very detailed spec (though on reflection it wasn’t detailed enough). We put it out to tender to about 7 companies. It put 3 off, but I saw that as very helpful to assisting me to make my decision. Of the four remaining, one was far to cheap to know what he was doing, one was extortionate, the other two were the ones we entered into detailed negotiations with.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Adsibob