17th century stone cottage .

[mike2020]

Hi in the process of taking all the cement render and gypsum plaster off my walls..will be using lime render and lime plaster on all the walls...The ceilings have got me a bit stumped have ripped all the old tiles and ply board (1960's ) off the ceilings to expose wood beams and cross beams.

 

Will now put saviolt wood wool boards between each beam can i just lime plaster over the boards or will i need to render boards first ?

 

I will be doing all the work myself so need some guidence thanks.

Edited November 5, 2021 by mike2020
spelling

[TonyT]

Wouldn’t it be best to speak to the manufacturers and ask their guidance on suitable products?

[Gus Potter]

39 minutes ago, mike2020 said:

Hi in the process of taking all the cement render and gypsum plaster off my walls..will be using lime render and lime plaster on all the walls...The ceilings have got me a bit stumped have ripped all the old tiles and ply board (1960's ) off the ceilings to expose wood beams and cross beams.

 

Will now put saviolt wood wool boards between each beam can i just lime plaster over the boards or will i need to render boards first ?

 

I will be doing all the work myself so need some guidence thanks.

Hello Mike2020.

 

Sounds like a cracking project. Have you taken plenty photos so you can look back on your efforts once you have finished?

 

Before you make a decision on how to tackle the ceiling start right at the top of the house.. look to see what you have and write it down. This excercise often crystalizes your thoughts.. imagine you have to expain to someone how your house works. Start with the roof covering.. work down.

 

Ask youself.. how is the roof kept water tight and ventilated.. how does the water vapour get out / in? get a handle on this (if you have not already done so) and this will help drive how you plaster your ceiling. If you don't know the answers then fine.. but now you know what you don't know.

 

It seems pedantic but it forces you to look at the structure holistically.. can be a lot of fun too! This holistic approach is essential when dealing with "old houses" You want to spend your money carefully and target your spend to get the best out of your endevours.

 

If you feel able, post your findings on BH and you'll get loads of ideas and suggestions.. for free!

 

 

[mike2020]

6 minutes ago, TonyT said:

Wouldn’t it be best to speak to the manufacturers and ask their guidance on suitable products?

Agreed they say i need to render first but like anyother building supplier they always try to sell you more product than you need ...really was hoping someone on this forum had experience with this material long shot i know.

[Gus Potter]

Hi Mike2020.

 

 

I may have pick up your post wrongly..

 

Have you been told that you can fit the wool boards between the beams and then plaster the ceiling? If so I would avoid.

 

Maybe a starting point is to look at a new house. You have the ceiling beams, below is attached plaster board which acts as a carrier for say a skim coat of gypsum based plaster.

 

On an old house you have the ceiling beams, timber laths (carrier) with a gap between. They used a plaster with horse hair and a bit of stuff from the barber shop. The base coat of plaster (lime based) was forced up between the spaces in the laths.. this gives the key.  each lathe carries a bit of the weigh of the plaster and each lathe is nailed to the underside of the ceiling beam. Then the finish coats (lime based) were applied.

 

If you want to use a lime plaster then you need to relicate an old lathe and plaster ceiling either by lathes or by using an expanded metal mesh. The insulation is just intended to keep the place warm.. not to carry the weight of the plaster.

 

This is (lime based plaster on ceilings is expensive) hence my previous post about understanding your house.

 

Hope this helps.

 

[mike2020]

8 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Hello Mike2020.

 

Sounds like a cracking project. Have you taken plenty photos so you can look back on your efforts once you have finished?

 

Before you make a decision on how to tackle the ceiling start right at the top of the house.. look to see what you have and write it down. This excercise often crystalizes your thoughts.. imagine you have to expain to someone how your house works. Start with the roof covering.. work down.

 

Ask youself.. how is the roof kept water tight and ventilated.. how does the water vapour get out / in? get a handle on this (if you have not already done so) and this will help drive how you plaster your ceiling. If you don't know the answers then fine.. but now you know what you don't know.

 

It seems pedantic but it forces you to look at the structure holistically.. can be a lot of fun too! This holistic approach is essential when dealing with "old houses" You want to spend your money carefully and target your spend to get the best out of your endevours.

 

If you feel able, post your findings on BH and you'll get loads of ideas and suggestions.. for free!

 

 

Sound advice gus have had roof repaired last week the was a couple of leeks but small stone roof, the is no ventilation so good point...Will be fitting automatic dehumidfiers ducted one upstairs and downstairs to control the dew point of the house.       We will for sure take plenty of pics during the process. 

Roof ventilation now never even thought of that thanks.

[mike2020]

3 minutes ago, mike2020 said:

Sound advice gus have had roof repaired last week the was a couple of leeks but small stone roof, the is no ventilation so good point...Will be fitting automatic dehumidfiers ducted one upstairs and downstairs to control the dew point of the house.       We will for sure take plenty of pics during the process. 

Roof ventilation now never even thought of that thanks.

 

5 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Hi Mike2020.

 

 

I may have pick up your post wrongly..

 

Have you been told that you can fit the wool boards between the beams and then plaster the ceiling? If so I would avoid.

 

Maybe a starting point is to look at a new house. You have the ceiling beams, below is attached plaster board which acts as a carrier for say a skim coat of gypsum based plaster.

 

On an old house you have the ceiling beams, timber laths (carrier) with a gap between. They used a plaster with horse hair and a bit of stuff from the barber shop. The base coat of plaster (lime based) was forced up between the spaces in the laths.. this gives the key.  each lathe carries a bit of the weigh of the plaster and each lathe is nailed to the underside of the ceiling beam. Then the finish coats (lime based) were applied.

 

If you want to use a lime plaster then you need to relicate an old lathe and plaster ceiling either by lathes or by using an expanded metal mesh. The insulation is just intended to keep the place warm.. not to carry the weight of the plaster.

 

This is (lime based plaster on ceilings is expensive) hence my previous post about understanding your house.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hi gus their are to two large wooden beams across each room with ten wooden cross beams tide in to main beams in 3 sections of the ceilings wooden floor boards above...They where originally no plaster no nothing just beams with floor boards above .

 

I had the house surveyed last week from the english heritage recommended surveyor he said i can use wood wool boards then lime plaster over which will both insulate and allow the house to breath also.

 

[Gus Potter]

Hi Mike2020.

 

Your project sounds great.

 

On these jobs it's easy to get carried away and do stuff that at the time on an ad hoc basis.. fire fighting!. For example you have moved in, have kids, a day job and need to do things that just have to be done in the interests of family harmony... that is life when you don't have a money / time tree growing in the back garden.

 

Taking pictures is really important. Sometimes on these big old houses (DIY) projects your head goes down and you feel you are not making any progress. At that point you can sit down.. look at the photos of when you started and say.. hey look.. we have done quite a lot and this can lift the spirits and spur you on.

 

Before you buy your dehimidifiers then reflect on where you are.. do you really need them.. have you checked you gutters, down pipes, cut back vegitation next to the outside walls, opened the windows during the day.

 

It's a different mind set.. imagine you are a custodian of the building! You'll often find that once you get a handle on your house you can really appreciate what you have bought. learn to live with it and adapt.. that is the joy of owning a 17th centuary house..

[Gus Potter]

3 minutes ago, mike2020 said:

 

Hi gus their are to two large wooden beams across each room with ten wooden cross beams tide in to main beams in 3 sections of the ceilings wooden floor boards above...They where originally no plaster no nothing just beams with floor boards above .

 

I had the house surveyed last week from the english heritage recommended surveyor he said i can use wood wool boards then lime plaster over which will both insulate and allow the house to breath also.

 

Yes, but you still need a carrier for the plaster. The surveyor is correct, it's just they may have assumed that you know that the lime plaster needs something solid to "stick / bond to"

 

 

[Roundtuit]

Hi @mike2020 Sounds like a great project, and I see from your other posts that you've had some good advice from experts on old buildings and I admire your enthusiasm.

 

I spent 10 years or so renovating a listed building, and I'd just suggest that you need to decide where you want to be on the spectrum from 'historical purist' to 'financially viable renovation'.  That will help you decide whether you're going to try to replace a ceiling with lath and lime plaster full of horse hair, or take a more pragmatic view using modern materials.

 

Your house: your balance!  Good luck!

 

 

 

[mike2020]

1 hour ago, Gus Potter said:

Yes, but you still need a carrier for the plaster. The surveyor is correct, it's just they may have assumed that you know that the lime plaster needs something solid to "stick / bond to"

 

 

All the beams will still be in view just you won't be able to see floor boards above maybe 20mm diff in height of ceiling ..Yes agreed need to render boards first then plaster..

10 yrs wow big part of your life i know admire  you rountuit... I want to do it right but the is a budget also and agreed iam just the custodian the house now looks like a 1960's nightmare all the beams where covered in ply and polystyrene tiles .

Iam retired and iam treating it like a job max 50 hours a week so lucky there.

 

You give great solid advice and will try to keep the house historicly correct as possible it was two cottages knocked into one house in the 1920's

link here roundtuit +gus https://rightmove.co.uk/properties/110459186#/media?id=media0&channel=RES_BUY

Edited November 5, 2021 by mike2020
wrong name

[Gus Potter]

Hi Mike2020.

 

@Roundtuit needs credit for this one.. the ten years.

 

In terms of you 50 hours a week I can from experience advise that you may want to consider breaking this down. I have discovered from my own project that;

 

1/ I'm not 30 years old any more with endless physical energy.

2/ Best to break the day down into physical work and thinking time..

3/ Have a large lunch and a sleep after, lets the brain work on solutions for the afternoon.

 

Each to their own I suppose, the main thing is to set yourself up so you get a dail (at best) or weekly burst of reward for your efforts and this keeps you motivated for the long haul.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

9 hours ago, Gus Potter said:

1/ I'm not 30 years old any more with endless physical energy.

2/ Best to break the day down into physical work and thinking time..

3/ Have a large lunch and a sleep after, lets the brain work on solutions for the afternoon.

Are you French?

 

I totally agree with your approaching, except using the word 'holistic'.

Houses are just engineered structures, 'system' is a better term I think.  There is less misunderstanding and no room for hopium.