Onoff Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, dpmiller said: Delving into the converter is your next stop. What variety is it, transistorised or rotary? Transistorised with lots of caps in there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Ewww. Careful. Nasty things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) I ran the pillar drill that starts fine. Readings: OFF. FWD REV R1- S2 430 430 390 S2 - T3 430 430 430 R1 - T3 0 450 460 R1- E 0 450 460 S2 - E 430 430 435 T3 - E 0 0 0 Edited October 16, 2021 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 A few random pics inside the phase converter. Bfo trannie in there and lots of caps. Incoming L&N appear to go to the transformer and take 230V up to ""415" out on the brown. Across the red and black to the transformer 230V. Out on the brown 430V. Measuring from a wall socket between N or E to the phase converter outputs. One phase to E or N. Circa 400V. Other two phases to E or N at the socket, zero volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 The inside looks well built. I would safely discharge the capacitors and measure the rating, or just replace as just like humans they get old and tired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, TonyT said: The inside looks well built. I would safely discharge the capacitors and measure the rating, or just replace as just like humans they get old and tired! Do you think a duff cap(s) could be why I'm getting this unexpected 430V to earth? Debating dropping any control voltage to either 42 or 48V. I've 400v trannies to do both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 What’s the S2 terminal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Sounds like the set of capacitors for phase 3 is shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 430 volt toneart is normal, measure any live/line voltage to earth and you will get the same as you would measuring to neutral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, TonyT said: 430 volt toneart is normal, measure any live/line voltage to earth and you will get the same as you would measuring to neutral Is that because it is a converter i.e. the capacitors are charged up to around that voltage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, TonyT said: 430 volt toneart is normal, measure any live/line voltage to earth and you will get the same as you would measuring to neutral ? Whenever I measure a 3P supply I look for 400V between any two phases then 230V any phase to neutral or any phase to earth. How do you reckon some of these machines are starting with phase 3 down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 44 minutes ago, TonyT said: What’s the S2 terminal? I'll have a crack at drawing the circuit out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Onoff said: ? Whenever I measure a 3P supply I look for 400V between any two phases then 230V any phase to neutral or any phase to earth. How do you reckon some of these machines are starting with phase 3 down? Must be the type of motor, may have a built in capacitor? Would have to get in there with my own meter to me sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) John ward is good at explaining things Edited October 17, 2021 by TonyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, TonyT said: John ward is good at explaining things Thanks, but again it's always been 400V between phases, 230V phase to neutral or phase to earth. Sorry, I don't understand you saying 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, TonyT said: Must be the type of motor, may have a built in capacitor? Would have to get in there with my own meter to me sure. It's been running and still runs, all different 3P machines. Mill, pillar drill, donkey saw etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Onoff said: Thanks, but again it's always been 400V between phases, 230V phase to neutral or phase to earth. Sorry, I don't understand you saying 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth is normal. neutral and earth are joined together so effectively the same when putting voltmeter on line to earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 53 minutes ago, TonyT said: neutral and earth are joined together so effectively the same when putting voltmeter on line to earth You haven't answered my question. I'm taking it you think it normal to see 400V phase to neutral or phase to earth. Sorry, I must be missing something! I've always worked on this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 On your drawing connections D&E are connected together- that’s the neutral and earth, so measuring any phase to neutral and phase to earth will have the same reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 minute ago, TonyT said: On your drawing connections D&E are connected together- that’s the neutral and earth, so measuring any phase to neutral and phase to earth will have the same reading I know. Fully aware but it should only be 230 not 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I’ve just re read one of my posts where I say 430 volt to earth- clearly I was being a twat apologies for the confusion…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, TonyT said: I’ve just re read one of my posts where I say 430 volt to earth- clearly I was being a twat apologies for the confusion…. TFFT! ? You had me panicked I'd been testing things wrong for 40 years! I'll measure all the caps tomorrow if I can. The converter unfortunately is 6' up in the air on a shelf above a donkey saw. I had to balance on the saw earlier. Yep, I'll discharge the caps! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 19, 2021 Author Share Posted October 19, 2021 I've just emailed the author of this to see if he has any idea on these weird readings I'm getting on the phase converter. That 430V to earth on one phase is "correct" in that's how the phase converter is built. I measure it between the 415V output in the big transformer and earth. Brown and earth on the right go to the output. So it's "correct" I just don't understand! Well, I understand how the trannie steps it up from 230 to 415 but not how it doesn't upset the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, Onoff said: I just don't understand Don't it work because it takes time to charge up the capacitor, this is what shifts the phase. I take it that the capacitor/s are after the transformer/s. Can you work out the RMS voltage? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Though I've had books 16 & 24 from the same Workshop Practice series for years, I recently bought this book: Very interesting so I tracked the author down and emailed him. Had a lovely response from him as to what he thinks is happening with the BiLs converter, how it works etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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