Bramco Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Just looking for alternatives to Loxone etc. for simple automation of blinds, rooflights, heating etc. and realised that PLCs may offer an easy and relatively cheap solution. For example the Siemens LOGO PLCs have analog and digital I/O, ethernet and a web interface. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 I used to program Siemens S7 which is a bit different to LOGO. Have you done any PLC programming? it is quite a different beast to most HA systems. Lots of help, tutorials and a forum on PLCS.NET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Not actually programmed any in anger but understand the principles and have programmed lots of other things. I may be able to make it simpler still with just some relays connected between the blind and rooflight controllers so that we can mainly do it with rocker switches. Need to really sit down and work out how we want things to work and what we might want to control automatically. Thanks for the link to plcs.net Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMcN Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, ProDave said: I used to program Siemens S7 which is a bit different to LOGO. Have you done any PLC programming? it is quite a different beast to most HA systems. Lots of help, tutorials and a forum on PLCS.NET The LOGO is quite good as you can use ladder logic or you can use it as gate logic (AND/OR/NOT etc). Drag and drop the gates, timers, counters, flags etc and it will convert to ladder. Sorry cant help with your question exactly @Bramco but no reason it wouldnt be suitable IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 11, 2021 Author Share Posted October 11, 2021 Thanks @BMcN Thinking things through, I guess it comes down to the price you'd need to pay for a PLC with enough inputs from the switches against any other system. I've got 20 inputs from switches for the rooflights (up, down for all, some switched together etc.) and then the outputs, in our case 12 (6 rooflights, up and down). Easy enough to program but does the cost start to build up. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Have a look at https://www.unipi.technology/ too. Is Siemens LOGO cheaper than Loxone or does it have advantages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Dan F said: Have a look at https://www.unipi.technology/ too. I've also found -> https://www.industrialshields.com/ 16 hours ago, Dan F said: Is Siemens LOGO cheaper than Loxone or does it have advantages? As far as I can tell systems like Loxone and Control4 etc. are pretty expensive but then they do cover all of the functionality a person might need, including audio and video etc. and they are very flexible. PLCs are much cheaper for the hardware, a 4 input, 4 output LOGO PLC is just over £100. So if all you want is the ability to manage blinds, rooflights etc then they would be much more cost effective. The tools for programming PLCs are much better these days. We want a relatively simple system without any special wiring, like the Loxone wiring, so I'm leaning towards a PLC based system. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Bramco said: As far as I can tell systems like Loxone and Control4 etc. are pretty expensive but then they do cover all of the functionality a person might need, including audio and video etc. and they are very flexible. You can limit the cost by not buying the Loxone-branded light switches and motion sesnors and sticking to basic push switches and cheaper motion sensors. What Loxone does give you is a lot of breadth of functiinality (albeit some with costly extensions), a great design tool and a nice app that is easy for anyone to use. 5 hours ago, Bramco said: PLCs are much cheaper for the hardware, a 4 input, 4 output LOGO PLC is just over £100. So if all you want is the ability to manage blinds, rooflights etc then they would be much more cost effective. The tools for programming PLCs are much better these days. We want a relatively simple system without any special wiring, like the Loxone wiring, so I'm leaning towards a PLC based system. I wouldn't say Loxone wiring is complex, depends what you want to do with Loxone. Another alternative is to do something Raspberry Pi based and/or use Shelly's for relays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, Dan F said: I wouldn't say Loxone wiring is complex, depends what you want to do with Loxone. Hi Dan, I didn't want to say it's complex. My understanding is that it requires special cabling - so adding to the cost. 55 minutes ago, Dan F said: Another alternative is to do something Raspberry Pi based and/or use Shelly's for relays. The industrial shields (link above) is Pi based - but then you'd need to be installing HA or something similar and then of course you have to manage that over time. And there are alternatives to Shelly, like Moes and Sonoff. I've used quite a bit of Sonoff kit and it seems to work fine although if you don't want things to go through their service, you need to reflash with ESPHome, Tasmota or similar. There's an interesting Kickstarter just started from Sonoff which I saw today -> https://bit.ly/3BDX7eM. It's a wifi panel with a lot of functionality built in. Sonoff NSPanel Smart Scene Wall Switch. I've backed it as they looks as if it might be something I could use. About £50 with shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan F Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Bramco said: Hi Dan, I didn't want to say it's complex. My understanding is that it requires special cabling - so adding to the cost. CAT7 is recommended, but there is no reason why you can't use CAT6. Screened CAT cable is ideal for 1-wire bus, but not needed for anything else. The special cable you mention is "tree cable" which has 6-cores and including 2x1.5mm2 for 24v supply. You only really need this is you are using Loxone's own 24v lighting, and even then you have to be careful with voltage drop. I haven't used tree cable anywhere; i) not using loxone lighting ii) it's more expensive iii) CAT6/7 has more cores for more sensors. If you wanted to keep costs down, but still want great designer and great app you could look at using a Miniserver Go and have that do HTTP calls to sonoff/shelly relays and/or talk to LOGO modules via HTTP too. I know I'm already sold on Loxone, but there is fair amount of value IMO of having a very good central controller/designer/app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramco Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 17 hours ago, Dan F said: but there is fair amount of value IMO of having a very good central controller/designer/app. Couldn't agree more - the thought of having to program everything from scratch isn't just daunting, it would be crackers... And thanks for the clarification on Loxone wiring. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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