MF Door Reveals & Lining Kit Suggestions

[MortarThePoint]

I'm establishing various door openings in metal frame and wondered if anyone recommended any particular door liner kit as being good. They don't appear to fully standardise on the thickness of the timber and that affects the size of the reveals to be left in the metal frame stud walls. There do however appear to be lots that are 32mm nominal which equates to a finished 27mm. There appear to be thicker ones for fire rating purposes. A 70mm stud with plasterboard either side works out as 100mm, so it's the 115mm nominal / 106mm actual lining I'll want I expect. Is the extra 11mm (12.5mm plasterboard) or 6mm (15mm plasterboard) is to allow for plaster skim?

 

You have to reinforce the C-studs next to a door with timber and there are two ways of doing this. Either tuck a piece of timber into the C-stud or move the stud away from the reveal to have it on the reveal side. Which is best for a solid job?

 

How much wiggle room do people leave with MF studs? One general guide copied below suggests 10mm both sides but that seems excessive for MF. I was planning to go with 5mm each side so a reveal width of 830mm.

 

10mm (wriggle room) + 28mm (lining) + 762mm (door)+ 28mm (lining)+ 10mm (wriggle room) = 838mm (call it 840mm) [3]

 

https://www.selcobw.com/products/doors-windows-stairs/doors/door-frames/door-lining-sawn-metal-stud-32-x-115mm-nom-pefc

https://www.wonkeedonkeexljoinery.co.uk/fitting-a-new-door/how-to-fit-an-internal-door-frame/

[3] https://www.juliancassell.com/2528/interior-door-frames

[MortarThePoint]

If so inclined, could add floor channel sleeving the C-stud at the reveal as well as bending the bottom floor channel 300mm up:

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by MortarThePoint

[willbish]

1 hour ago, MortarThePoint said:

You have to reinforce the C-studs next to a door with timber and there are two ways of doing this. Either tuck a piece of timber into the C-stud or move the stud away from the reveal to have it on the reveal side. Which is best for a solid job?

 

Timber inside is, I think, essential as it gives something for the lining screws to bite into. I also doubled the C studs, probably unnecessary, but it adds rigidity.

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

19 hours ago, willbish said:

Timber inside is, I think, essential as it gives something for the lining screws to bite into. I also doubled the C studs, probably unnecessary, but it adds rigidity.

 

What gap did you leave between the c-studs of the reveal for what size door?

[MortarThePoint]

I'm wondering why not to build the door reveal with the door lining kit inside all in one go. If you prime the wood of the liner kit you can plaster skim afterwards and if you're taping an jointing it wouldn't matter anyway.

Edited October 12, 2021 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

@Conor sorry to call you out, but do you know what your contractors did for this? Did they make the door reveals tight to the lining kit? I guess ultimately, what size gap for what size door?

[willbish]

On 11/10/2021 at 09:45, MortarThePoint said:

 

What gap did you leave between the c-studs of the reveal for what size door

 

Pretty sure I followed this document when creating my openings. Will ping the laser around in a bit for you.

 

 

Opening-Dims.pdf

[Conor]

You talking about door frames? They made the C sections ~75mm or so wider than the door openings. They then lined the inside of the studs with 25x50mm battens and noggins either side. My joiners then fitted standard timber door frames before boarding.

[MortarThePoint]

2 hours ago, willbish said:

Pretty sure I followed this document when creating my openings. Will ping the laser around in a bit for you.

Opening-Dims.pdf 328.35 kB · 1 download

 

Thanks very handy. They appear to be using 10mm extra for timber studs so:

 

838 + 2*28 + 10 = 904

 

Given metal frame is much more accurate than timber studs I'm tempted to just build the kit into the metal frame studs as I go, so effectively reducing that 10mm extra to zero.

 

If you could measure with the laser that would be awesome as MF may be tighter reveals than timber studs.

 

[MortarThePoint]

2 hours ago, Conor said:

You talking about door frames? They made the C sections ~75mm or so wider than the door openings. They then lined the inside of the studs with 25x50mm battens and noggins either side. My joiners then fitted standard timber door frames before boarding.

 

Thanks. Looks like they have glued and screwed the door liner to the metal studs so should have a solid connection. I can't see any signs of packers so perhaps the metal frame reveal is 2 or 3 mm larger than the door liner. A couple of questions:

1. Why don't the vertical bits of the door liner go down to the floor?
2. Why the gap above the top of the door liner?

[Dave Jones]

Building control should pull you up using underground soil fittings inside. 

 

Cable tieing water pipes to the soil stack.. hope thats temporary.

 

Any reason you went for metal over timber apart from making life difficult for all the follow on trades ?

[PeterW]

26 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Building control should pull you up using underground soil fittings inside. 

Why..? As long as they are boxed in and not exposed to direct sunlight then they are fine. They should not be used externally. 

[Dave Jones]

14 hours ago, PeterW said:

Why..? As long as they are boxed in and not exposed to direct sunlight then they are fine. They should not be used externally. 

 

because below ground drainage hasn't been manufactured to  BS EN 1329 which is required by building regs. Same reason you cant use above ground drainage below ground. Like you say would probably be ok but best to do it properly as the cost isn't that much.

 

https://www.polypipe.com/housing/above-ground-drainage-faqs

 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

 

because below ground drainage hasn't been manufactured to  BS EN 1329 which is required by building regs. Same reason you cant use above ground drainage below ground. Like you say would probably be ok but best to do it properly as the cost isn't that much.

 

https://www.polypipe.com/housing/above-ground-drainage-faqs

 

Ok so you’ve quoted a supplier and not the actual regulations, and a single supplier at that too. 
 

There are varying regulations on pipework that are allowable, and it covers the 4 main “plastic” pipes in various Standards

 

Depending on the supplier, the underground products may be UPVC or PP - Polypipe only manufacture in UPVC for example for any drainage product where others use a mix of PP, PE and UPVC depending on the product range. It’s also worth noting that a significant amount of the standard relates to dimensions of fittings, wall thicknesses and other physical standards. The actual material used is around 4 paragraphs in the standard and relates to minimum amount of virgin polymer to re-grind and other additives. 

 

[Dave Jones]

im sure there is an odd exception as you say but its a different colour for a reason. 

 

Using the correct stuff saves having to dig out extra paperwork for building control like you have above. Enough hassle when building without making more !!

 

 

[Conor]

18 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

Building control should pull you up using underground soil fittings inside. 

 

Cable tieing water pipes to the soil stack.. hope thats temporary.

 

Any reason you went for metal over timber apart from making life difficult for all the follow on trades ?

BC are fine as it's all hidden.

Yes, temporary until they board one side of the wall.

Nobody uses timber anymore here. We're drylining anyway. Nobody has complained about the metal studs so far.

[Conor]

23 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

Thanks. Looks like they have glued and screwed the door liner to the metal studs so should have a solid connection. I can't see any signs of packers so perhaps the metal frame reveal is 2 or 3 mm larger than the door liner. A couple of questions:

1. Why don't the vertical bits of the door liner go down to the floor?
2. Why the gap above the top of the door liner?

1. No idea. I'm assuming as there's no point going below the FFL.

2. No idea, but I think the guy doing the metal work got the FFL wrong at the start. Think others are ok.

 

The only Packers the joiner used were little strips of DPC

 

 

[MortarThePoint]

38 minutes ago, Conor said:

1. No idea. I'm assuming as there's no point going below the FFL.

2. No idea, but I think the guy doing the metal work got the FFL wrong at the start. Think others are ok.

 

The only Packers the joiner used were little strips of DPC

 

So you've still got a screed or something left to lay after this photo was taken?

[Conor]

1 hour ago, MortarThePoint said:

 

So you've still got a screed or something left to lay after this photo was taken?

Yes. 50mm PIR, UFH, 50mm liquid screed, 20mm engineered wooden floor. In the basement we built the studs off a course of quinnlight aerated blocks to mitigate the cold bridge.