MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) I have a first floor landing next to a void down to the ground floor. Along the edge of the landing is a steel beam and the majority of the landing itself is Hollowcore slab. I am preparing for this area to be screeded, so need to put in a dam to stop screed waterfalling over the edge. See below what I have done. It leaves me wondering about how I am going to anchor the balustrade. Having removed the timber form work I'll have a strip of the beam left showing around 70mm wide. I could drill holes in the steel and attach a piece of wood along the length of the beam except where the stair meets the landing. Would I need to have something fireproof between the metal beam and the piece of wood bolted to its top? Have I got my form work in the right place? Leave a wider section of beam exposed Try to minimise the section of beam exposed Looks like a good plan, crack on Speaking of cracking, the intended finish along here is carpet, but down the line I guess it could become tile so I was wanting to avoid having to fill a gap between the edge of the screed and the balustrade timber with SLC or the like as could cause cracked tiles. At the top of the stairs should I have the screed go right to the edge of the beam? Edited August 5, 2021 by MortarThePoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 I'm a bit concerned that the length of the landing means that I'll have to have additional newl posts along its length, not just at the two ends (top of stair and wall). The balustrade is about 5m long. I can't readily see a building regulation or guidance for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 What is the handrail make-up? Nothing to say you have to have newel posts. The balustrade just needs to be structurally sound and do it’s job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Are you going to bridge the gap between steel and concrete with some form of mesh, I have used chicken wire in the past or a fine stainless mesh embedded in the screed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, markc said: What is the handrail make-up? Nothing to say you have to have newel posts. The balustrade just needs to be structurally sound and do it’s job We haven't chosen one yet. Something like the links below. The recommend a maximum of 2.4m between posts. That probably means we'll have to have 4 posts (top of stair, 1.6m from stair, 1.6m from end wall and on end wall). https://www.blueprintjoinery.com/timber-stair-parts/classic-rolling-pin/ https://www.blueprintjoinery.com/timber-stair-parts/square-twist/square-twist-stair-&-landing-balustrade-kit/ They have a fastening system for timber or concrete (link below) but I'd ultimately need to anchor to the steel beam as the screed (40mm) isn't thick enough to anchor to. https://www.blueprintjoinery.com/timber-stair-parts/fixings-and-accessories/slip-fix-newel-post-to-floor-ut-post-fastener/ If I am going to have to drill holes in the beam, I want to be sure I have enough space so that would suggest holding the screed back more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Looking at that stud they supply you could adapt that to have a threaded end that screws into a captive nut in the steel web. Cut out the screed in the post location, drill through steel, insert stud and tighten in web of steel. Or if your a bit clever install the stud in the steel now and screed around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Are you going to bridge the gap between steel and concrete with some form of mesh, I have used chicken wire in the past or a fine stainless mesh embedded in the screed. I'm only asking the ~40mm screed to bridge a gap of around 20mm so it should be stiff enough for that even without reinforcement. Looks wider in some places do to vertical difference. If there is differential movement between the beam and the hollowcore, then even reinforced I'd expect it would crack. Edited August 5, 2021 by MortarThePoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 It's looking like my best bet is to hold the screed back a bit further to allow options. I can then cast a continuation of the screed or bolt timer to the steel beam. Ideally this would all be done already and I'd just be screeding to the edge of the steel. I'll leave the screed 100mm back from the edge of the beam as I can't imagine us having posts larger than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Mesh. If not using chicken wire, what's the best bet. Anything available from Toolstation/Screwfix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 This is what it would end up looking like The gap highlighted would probably be around 5mm, but could end up being more. I'd be surprised if it's an issue for carpet or timber flooring even at 20mm. Tiles may be more of an issue, but perhaps that needs to be. @Nickfromwales and @Russell griffiths you're talking about reinforcing with mesh where I have shown the green squiggle. I can't see it cracking there unless the HCF and UC beam move differentially and if that occurs do I want the screed to fight it? It would be worse for the screed to crack somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 42 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said: If not using chicken wire, what's the best bet. Anything available from Toolstation/Screwfix? Chicken dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Is the screed in now? If so my apologies, just foam it!! Thought this was going into the screed and was to reinforce the screed at that point so it doesn’t fracture and just float there. Grafting and typing as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Just seen the pic. Mesh, deffo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 25 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Is the screed in now? If so my apologies, just foam it!! Thought this was going into the screed and was to reinforce the screed at that point so it doesn’t fracture and just float there. Grafting and typing as usual. Not in yet so it's an option to reinforce if I can get some in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 @Nickfromwales grafting. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 If it cracks then the bit of screed on top of the steel will just float and rattle about. I would mesh it and fix the mesh to the steel with tex screws and washers. Leaving a gap for screed to go under the mesh, so pack it up off the steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 50 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: @Nickfromwales grafting. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Someone’s got to pay for all the new cups. ✌️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 40 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Someone’s got to pay for all the new cups. ✌️ Is that all you’ve got, I’m disappointed with the poor come back. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Russell griffiths said: Is that all you’ve got, I’m disappointed with the poor come back. ? I’m ill….. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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