Road closure for service connections - ARGH! :(

[tomfc]

Hi all. So my self-build journey was going swimmingly, until... trying to get services to the property. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience particularly with council rules around road closures, "early entry", etc.

 

We are on a single track road so each service sadly needs a full road closure, which in turn needs to have 12 weeks notice for the council (and £2k just to the council apparently!).

 

Very very long story short, we tried to plan in all the works to happen during a road closure already conveniently planned on our road (but not for our property). The DNO that had planned this closure (Elec North West - ENWL), and the council, approved Cadent Gas to work during the same closure to connect us up (happy days). Then, just a few days before start date, we find out by chance that ENWL have cancelled the closure, without even informing Cadent. So Cadent's works are still on the council database (down as incursion but not full closure!) but the closure removed. So Cadent cannot do their work either. And of course we had all this work planned in for this closure, so now have to go through the 12 week wait from scratch! Absolute nightmare!

 

To add another confusion into the mix, United Utilities were also going to do work during this closure. They, however, had planned another closure in for September before deciding to hop onto this one which then got cancelled. They told me they had applied for "early entry" to go in 6 weeks early on the 12 week timescale. So we could've had a closure in August! But then they have now told me applying to do their work in the now cancelled closure has removed their early entry closure and they now can't apply for one again????? But have told us to speak to the council and apply for early entry???! I have sent an email but have no idea of the process and surely if UU claim they'd be refused early entry then so would we on their closure?!

 

Sorry for the long and confusing paragraphs, but this is turning into an incredibly costly and time-consuming nightmare for us. We literally have a house that we can't do any more work towards finishing until we have services, and we may have months to wait now for that, when we were told they'd all be done this week! And this is all through no fault of our own! We could've moved in in a few weeks if not for this.

 

I'm basically wondering if anyone has any advice. It seems like because of the council road closure timescales we're absolutely stuck time-wise, and I don't even really know who to complain to, the whole system has just failed us. We're spending thousands and ENWL, UU, and Cadent have all been impossible to deal with and get information out of at the best of times, and the council seems even worse. This shouldn't be so hard and I'm at the end of my tether. I wish I'd never started the housebuild journey honestly. :(

[markc]

Are the services in the middle of the lane? i.e. under the tarmac. or are they on the other side? and you need to cross the lane.road.

[ProDave]

Why is there no joined up thinking to coordinate these works?  Should the council not try and encourage that?

 

Do you actually need the road up or can the services mole under it?

[markc]

Just now, ProDave said:

Why is there no joined up thinking to coordinate these works?  Should the council not try and encourage that?

 

Do you actually need the road up or can the services mole under it?

We are thinking along the same lines here

[tomfc]

Yeah they're under the lane. A couple on our side, one on the other. We thought the ones on our side might be okay, but all services have said they need a full closure. There is no verge even to work in or give a bit of room. Nobody has even mentioned a mole, when pressed they've all just said that they need a full closure. 

 

Honestly it's impossible to get them to coordinate. That's what we've been trying to do, but even UU and ENWL, who use literally the same subcontractor (Network Plus) to do the work apparently can't talk to each other...!

[ProDave]

When I did mine, I only had the road up once for Water (which happened to be the deepest service) and dropped in ducts for electricity and telecoms before it got filled in.  And those services were happy to just use the duct that had magically appeared for them, and re quoted a lower connection cost with no need for the road up.

 

Sometimes you have to be creative.

[tomfc]

I thought I had done really well too when I got them all to agree to work under ENWL's planned closure, but then ENWL cancelled it without telling anyone and left us even worse off! ? I'm genuinely at my wit's end with trying to be creative and get them to do anything mildly similar to what we want!

 

I'm going to try to get them to coordinate works again for the next closure, the main issue for is is that it'll be in September, months behind schedule.

Edited July 8, 2021 by tomfc

[Temp]

This was the worst part of our build. Utilities just don't seem to care about messing people about. They treat self builders as small jobs they can just move around to fit the availability of their men and machines and give priority to bigger jobs. If the government wanted to help self build they would open up the market to proper competition not the "contestable"/"non-contestable" mess we have at the moment.

[tomfc]

Yeah I agree, they're completely useless and I wish govt would do something, because the system does not work at the moment. 

 

Especially with UU I've been told different dates, different timescales, different rules each time I've spoken to a different person - to the point where I now can't believe anything they tell me to be anything more than just fobbing me off. I really do hate them.

[Temp]

3 minutes ago, tomfc said:

I thought I had done really well too when I got them all to agree to work under ENWL's planned closure, but then ENWL cancelled it without telling anyone and left us even worse off! ? I'm genuinely at my wit's end with trying to be creative and get them to do anything mildly similar to what we want!

 

Have they postponed their job? If so to when?

[tomfc]

2 minutes ago, Temp said:

 

Have they postponed their job? If so to when?

 

Nope, this is the even more frustrating thing, they did it during another earlier planned closure ?‍♂️ so now there won't be another for that job!

 

Basically we tried to plan in work during their closure, but they tried to plan in their work as during another earlier closure! And then cancelled the closure whilst there were still official approved plans for Cadent to work during it, and neither the council nor ENWL thought to maybe tell Cadent?!?!?!

[Thorfun]

I feel for you and you did well to get them to agree to work under someone else's road closure but as you didn't pay for it there's no recourse for the cancellation and you are, basically, back to square one! terrible situation to be in.

 

I would suggest the best course of action is to take this hit on the chin and start again from scratch and get your own road closure in place (using the utility with the cheapest quote for that) and then attempt to get all the utilities to work under the same road closure. that's what we did and we managed to get electricity and water to work under the one road closure. We decided that Openreach would put a pole on the corner of our property which saved needing a road closure (and the stress of trying to get 3 utility companies working together!) and will also be free. I put more details of our utility journey in this blog post:

 

 

good luck.

[Temp]

I would try pleading with the council and see if they can't expedite the closure request. Google found this for another council..

 

https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/roadworks/apply-for-a-temporary-road-closure-or-restriction/

 

Quote

 

Notice period

For any planned works that require a TTRO, we will require a minimum notice period of 3 months to process the application. However, Network Assurance may agree a shorter notice period in some circumstances
 

 

 

That suggests 12 weeks isnt a statutory requirement just purely administrative?

 

Point out that you are trying to minimise disruption but that will unavoidable if you can't still have the slot that ENWL previously booked. Mention the delay will also mean the council looses 3 months council tax for the whole development if you can't have that date. (Yes i know its only one house but the person on the desk at the council might not know that or ask).

 

See if they can reinstate the closure in Cadents name?

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Temp

[Haylingbilly]

On 08/07/2021 at 17:05, ProDave said:

When I did mine, I only had the road up once for Water (which happened to be the deepest service) and dropped in ducts for electricity and telecoms before it got filled in.  And those services were happy to just use the duct that had magically appeared for them, and re quoted a lower connection cost with no need for the road up.

 

Sometimes you have to be creative.

same for me, once you get the surveyors out, they can be much more helpful than the office staff. I would definitely take this approach if I did it again.