Party Wall dissent for a simple extension - difficult neighbours!

[JudithC]

Hi everyone! Really hope you can help as this has been rumbling on for a couple of years now and it’s becoming quite stressful. We’re trying to do everything by the book but our neighbours are being very unkind at every turn.

 

We’re building a simple side extension over our garage. It’s a semi-detached house (non-attached side) and our neighbours built exactly the same extension about 5 years ago, before we lived there. Their property doesn’t touch our garage, there’s about a 50mm gap, presumably to avoid party wall discussions when they built their extension. Our structural engineer has suggested we need to demolish our garage, dig new foundations (no deeper than their foundations) and build a new cavity wall to the boundary line. It should be very simple. All permissions (planning and building regs) have gone through fine (even with their objections, that they didn’t tell us about). Just about every house on the street has done this work.

 

We’ve tried to keep them in the loop with everything we’re doing from the outset. We’ve sent them e-mails with all the designs, we’ve sent build schedules, we even give them advance notice by text of any noisy work. Face-to-face they’re absolutely fine and have no issues, but they then lodge objections to everything behind our backs. 

 

The plan was to build up to the boundary and ‘seal’ the gap to avoid debris etc. building up between the two properties. We’d also need to install some flashing around roof level for the same reason. Our architect said this was normal and best practice.

 

We gave them the plans months ago and asked if they had any questions. They were fine. The only relevant Party Wall matter seems to be the Line of Junction notice since we're building entirely on our own land up to the boundary. Needless to say they immediately raised a dissent against this without speaking to us first. We’re happy to go down the Party Wall Award route but given their history I think they’ll continue to be difficult even after this. We’re now reluctantly thinking of building shy of the boundary and leaving the small gap between the properties, so we build entirely on our side with no junctions. Obviously this means their existing wall (covered in very shoddy render) will be inaccessible for maintenance. 

 

Can anyone anticipate any issues with this? If we go down this route is there anything they could do if they still wanted to be awkward? (which they inevitably will) Or do you think we should continue with our plans to build up to the boundary and go down the PWA route?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Judith

 

[ToughButterCup]

Welcome.  You have my sincere sympathy. Neighbours are sometimes Hell - whats the saying : Good fences make good neighbours.

 

Bottom line? PWA route. Why? Because of the behaviours you have described. This is the 'kicker' 

22 minutes ago, JudithC said:

... so we build entirely on our side with no junctions. Obviously this means their existing wall (covered in very shoddy render) will be inaccessible for maintenance. ... 

and the real issue is

 

25 minutes ago, JudithC said:

... Face-to-face they’re absolutely fine and have no issues, but they then lodge objections to everything behind our backs....

Many (most) people lie to avoid conflict. Me included. The issue is the threshold at which I decide to lie. Rather than devote emotional intelligence to finding a solution to the problem.

 

The only way I can think to mitigate that shoddiness issue is to offer to have it rendered in advance of any work you might do.  Building a  few mm short of any of our walls, and I'd be asking how on earth is the wall to be maintained?

If you can point to a design locally which is the same as the one you propose ( and it seems theres a good chance of that) then your arguement will be stronger.

[Mr Punter]

Unless you can have a gap of at least 500mm it is better to build up to their wall.  There should be no need for a cavity wall.  You could build it in 140mm blockwork.  Gives you a bit more space.

[JudithC]

Thanks for the responses! PWA sounds like the sensible approach. I just wish they'd speak to us instead of going behind our backs all the time. The vast majority of similar extensions around here are joined, the odd one has left a small gap, probably for similar reasons. It's tricky since we don't want to build over their boundary and if they haven't built to the boundary then it will be too bigger gap for a cement join. But presumably we can use some sort of trim strip and flashing at the top.

 

It will be a cavity wall above the garage so building a cavity underneath just makes life easier.

[ToughButterCup]

15 minutes ago, JudithC said:

... I just wish they'd speak to us instead of going behind our backs all the time. ...

 

Exactly. Whenever there's a problem - especially in this sector - and you get either lies or silence (such as avoided phone calls) then the temperature goes up doesn't it? I have had two major wall-of-silence issues on our build. And in both cases the people I wanted to contact have  the emotional intelligence of the average 3 year old. The vast majority of others just pick up the phone and talk.

 

People show themselves for what they really are when things go wrong: not when everything in the garden's rosy. You have a good case to make: they can either listen  and help solve the problem, or be awkward and have a resolution imposed  with the help of the PWA. 

 

Try another  knock on the door - cup of tea, piece of cake?

[ProDave]

What nobody has mentioned is joining them DEVALUES both properties, turning them from semi detached to mid terrace.  This is probably what your neighbour wants to avoid hence he built his extension on his land with a (small) gap and you cannot join to his wall without trespassing.

 

I would just carry on building on your side leaving a gap as well.  What happens at the eaves?  There will be some eaves overhang you have to allow for that in setting the position of your wall so your eaves overhang and his don't clash.

 

I would not make any attempt to fill the gap between them.

 

Have building control raised any issues with building so close?  A friend of ours was not allowed to build so close and building control insuisted they left space to maintain the wall.

[JudithC]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I would just carry on building on your side leaving a gap as well.  What happens at the eaves?  There will be some eaves overhang you have to allow for that in setting the position of your wall so your eaves overhang and his don't clash.

 

It's a hipped roof with a box gutter, so no overhang. We were going to join the flashing at the box gutter to cover the gap, but if that's not an option then so be it.

 

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

Have building control raised any issues with building so close?  A friend of ours was not allowed to build so close and building control insuisted they left space to maintain the wall.

 

No issues raised by BC. Plans approved. As I say, just about every house on the street has done this. The houses are set back from each other so they don't look 'terraced' as such.

 

[Bitpipe]

Our neighbours were also polite during the pre-app discussions and then lodged lengthy objections that they did not discuss with us, despite every opportunity.

 

We built, they got over it and relations are now fine.

 

Best not to take it personally, just be polite and business like but do not attempt to appease them for the sake of good relations - often being over accommodating can make relations worse as they will keep expecting more.