MortarThePoint Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I've sent back the previous lot of pipe and am changing to PERT-AL-PERT instead. To maximise my chances of success I am also likely to be using castellated panels. Further, I am thinking of changing the layout to snail pattern as this replaces a large number of 180 degree bends with a larger number of 90 degree bends and one 180 degree bend. The benefit is that those 90 degree bends are easier to form and less likely to store residual stress. Does anyone know any pros and cons of snail pattern over the more conventions pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Spiral is better for heat transfer overall and less hot spots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 24 minutes ago, PeterW said: Spiral is better for heat transfer overall and less hot spots Thanks Peter, so sounds like another bonus. I can see the downside of spiral/snail if using clip tracks as they wouldn't all be aligned in the same direction, but with castellated panels it seems like it would be straight forward. It doesn't use any more pipe does it? You don't happen to know if Wunda are able to design it as spiral for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farm boy Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 My UFH is on the horizon. I am currently clearing the ground floor of stuff and sweeping and cleaning in prep for DPM followed by 150mm insulation. I am looking at a 100mm spiral patterns on to castellated panels as it would save buying a over priced staple gun and laying polythene on top of the insulation, and would be easier for me working on my own but i notice some panels do not allow 100mm spacing. Have not done a final design yet may try a do my own on an old CAD programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 On 25/06/2021 at 15:03, MortarThePoint said: You don't happen to know if Wunda are able to design it as spiral for me? yes they are. my original basement UFH design by Wunda was the 'standard' serpentine layout which they said was their recommended layout but I asked them to design a spiral design and they did just that. they probably design serpentine layout as standard as it's easier in the loopCAD software. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperJohnG Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 Spiral works fine ans easy to lay. If you are laying in insulation it's easy too. I used a combination of clip track and stapler...got the stapler for 60 quid on here also I'm finished with it if anyone is looking for one. Wunda will do the design easily.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 15 hours ago, farm boy said: I am looking at a 100mm spiral patterns on to castellated panels as it would save buying a over priced staple gun and laying polythene on top of the insulation Castellated panels aren't cheap of course. About 6x as expensive as clip track. Are you figuring the trays will protect the insulation from the screed and therefore no need for the polythene. That may be a risky assumption, what do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 I didn’t use panels or clip track just borrowed the forums stapler (best to get a friend to help uncoil the pipe whilst you lay it), dead simple and easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 5, 2021 Author Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 minute ago, joe90 said: I didn’t use panels or clip track just borrowed the forums stapler (best to get a friend to help uncoil the pipe whilst you lay it), dead simple and easy. Staples are cheap as chips. Not chips of wood coated in glue and squished together to form OSB3 though, they're really expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Newport Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 16 hours ago, farm boy said: as it would save buying a over priced staple gun You can put them in by hand, they're only going through plastic and into foam. I expected the plumber to use a stapler, but he'd lent it out, and what else are apprentices for anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 17 hours ago, farm boy said: save buying a over priced staple gun There is one within the forum somewhere that’s loaned out and posted back to the next user (that’s what I did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 8, 2021 Author Share Posted July 8, 2021 Playing with LoopCAD and the "Spiral Counterflow" circuit layout setting. It only uses one circuit, whereas for the "Single Serpentine" it allows you to set how many and for the first room I am designing it defaults to 2. That's a nuisance as I'll have to manually divide each room that has more than one circuit and hope to get the areas balanced. Not too bad (see third image) though need to factor in the feed from the door (adds about 2*3m) as It doesn't work to have a narrow pan handle on the area. I haven't balanced the lengths very well below as, once I have added the feeds, they will be about 86m and 92m. That's not too bad, balanced to within 10%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 9 hours ago, MortarThePoint said: That's a nuisance as I'll have to manually divide each room that has more than one circuit and hope to get the areas balanced. exactly why my cynical mind said On 04/07/2021 at 21:19, Thorfun said: they probably design serpentine layout as standard as it's easier in the loopCAD software. ? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) Wunda have done an excellent spiral design, so clearly either use different software or a particularly diligent designer. Edited July 13, 2021 by MortarThePoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, MortarThePoint said: Wunda have done an excellent spiral design oh I agree. they did a spiral design for me too but their 'default' design is serpentine as it's easier (I presume) but will take the time to do the spiral if requested by those who want it. as the general public will not be doing this work themselves but getting their plumber to do it they will probably not care whether it's serpentine or spiral or some other shape as long as their floors are warm. us self-builders seem to go above and beyond what is normal. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 On 13/07/2021 at 15:09, Thorfun said: oh I agree. they did a spiral design for me too but their 'default' design is serpentine as it's easier (I presume) but will take the time to do the spiral if requested by those who want it. as the general public will not be doing this work themselves but getting their plumber to do it they will probably not care whether it's serpentine or spiral or some other shape as long as their floors are warm. us self-builders seem to go above and beyond what is normal. ? That's right, we certainly have an eye for detail on the things we are aware of. Just to double check, I am just using standard Cloth Duct Tape to tape my edges of the 125um membrane to the perimeter insulation skirt and any joints. I presume that's OK. I am planning to use a liquid screed (either anhydrite of cement based). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said: Just to double check, I am just using standard Cloth Duct Tape to tape my edges of the 125um membrane to the perimeter insulation skirt and any joints. I presume that's OK. I am planning to use a liquid screed (either anhydrite of cement based). if this was aimed at me I don't have a clue! but I'll be interested in the response and will try and store the answer for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 @joe90 did you just use duct tape to secure your membrane to the perimeter insulation skirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 No, we used nails into the blocks to hold it up and the screed pushed it tight to the perimeter insulation, then we cut it back to floor level after setting.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MortarThePoint Posted July 15, 2021 Author Share Posted July 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, joe90 said: No, we used nails into the blocks to hold it up and the screed pushed it tight to the perimeter insulation, then we cut it back to floor level after setting.? Cool. How did you do joins in the membrane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 29 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said: Cool. How did you do joins in the membrane? Double folded (not easy?) and tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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