Electrical Installation Certificate - Consumer Unit

[dangti6]

Back in 2014, not long after moving in to our current property we had an electric shower installed which required the consumer unit to be upgraded.

 

I didn’t receive any certification and it completely slipped my mind.

 

Fast forward until recently when I had my garage extended and I remembered the lack of certificate. Contacted the electrician who did the work in 2014 and he couldn’t find record of the installation and stated as it was over 5 years it wouldn’t be valid anyway. He came a couple of months ago to do a test.

 

Whilst he was here I asked about some changes to the electrics in the new garage so he decided to not finish/produce the test and do so when the works in the garage were done.

 

After chasing for the quote 3 times I have given up and have no certificate.

 

I suspect when we come to sell (not for a long while) certification of some sort will be requested. Would an EICR produced in the near future post garage electrical changes, or nearer eventual resale retrospectively by another electrician confirm the consumer unit change was done competently assuming it passes the tests?

 

The changes I wish to make to the garage are:

 

Increase the number of sockets on the 16a radial.

 

Change the single batten light for six LED panels on a 3 gang switch.

 

Change the single outside light spur to two outside lights.

 

As these changes are to existing and not new, outside of the kitchen and bathroom, I believe I can do these myself as non-notifiable minor works. Would subsequently appointing an electrician to do an EICR confirm my connections are correct and draw a line in the sand for our records that the consumer unit and works were safe as of 2021, at least.

[markc]

Changing the internal and external lights is no problem, but you cannot add extra sockets to the 16a spur

[dangti6]

36 minutes ago, markc said:

Changing the internal and external lights is no problem, but you cannot add extra sockets to the 16a spur

Hi Mark.

 

The 16a feed from the consumer unit to the garage is a single 2.5mm cable going to 1 double outlet. 
 

 

 

I was under the impression there was no restriction on adding extra sockets to a radial, but happy to be corrected I have misinterpreted against what can be done and what can be done without notification. 

[markc]

You can add as many extra sockets to a radial as you want as long as you feed them of a fused unit after the radial socket ... hope that make sense.

I.E if you added a fused spur (13a) you could run extra sockets from that supply ... like plugging in a 4 /4/10way extension lead.

You cant just duplicate the first one tho.

[ProDave]

41 minutes ago, markc said:

You can add as many extra sockets to a radial as you want as long as you feed them of a fused unit after the radial socket ... hope that make sense.

I.E if you added a fused spur (13a) you could run extra sockets from that supply ... like plugging in a 4 /4/10way extension lead.

You cant just duplicate the first one tho.

No the only requirement is not to overload the cable.  In this case the radial circuit is fed from a 16A MCB so no problem just extending it in 2.5mm cable.

 

You could wire an entire radial circuit fed from a 32A MCB as long as you used 4mm or 6mm cable,

[Carrerahill]

3 hours ago, dangti6 said:

Back in 2014, not long after moving in to our current property we had an electric shower installed which required the consumer unit to be upgraded.

 

I didn’t receive any certification and it completely slipped my mind.

 

Fast forward until recently when I had my garage extended and I remembered the lack of certificate. Contacted the electrician who did the work in 2014 and he couldn’t find record of the installation and stated as it was over 5 years it wouldn’t be valid anyway. He came a couple of months ago to do a test.

 

Whilst he was here I asked about some changes to the electrics in the new garage so he decided to not finish/produce the test and do so when the works in the garage were done.

 

After chasing for the quote 3 times I have given up and have no certificate.

 

I suspect when we come to sell (not for a long while) certification of some sort will be requested. Would an EICR produced in the near future post garage electrical changes, or nearer eventual resale retrospectively by another electrician confirm the consumer unit change was done competently assuming it passes the tests?

 

The changes I wish to make to the garage are:

 

Increase the number of sockets on the 16a radial.

 

Change the single batten light for six LED panels on a 3 gang switch.

 

Change the single outside light spur to two outside lights.

 

As these changes are to existing and not new, outside of the kitchen and bathroom, I believe I can do these myself as non-notifiable minor works. Would subsequently appointing an electrician to do an EICR confirm my connections are correct and draw a line in the sand for our records that the consumer unit and works were safe as of 2021, at least.

Your changes are so long ago now that there is not really going to be evidence of this very recent electrical work so I doubt someone will specifically start looking for the cert - a simple electrical test and inspection to cover the house as a whole will be fine. 

 

It is good you are thinking about it but why would a potential buyer single out the shower and go asking for the cert? They would not.

 

When I bought this place I just bought it, electrics were rough it transpired but how would I know from looking on the surface was what new and what was not unless clearly obvious. At 5 years it's pretty much water under the bridge. You say you won't sell for a long while, so it will be even more water under the bridge. By that time good electrics from 5 years ago might be faulty anyway - the cert is more or less useless now - he should have checked all the circuits at the time, providing a test report with the readings, but to be honest, those readings are like an MoT for a car from 5 years ago. 

 

Get your spark (suggest another one now!) in to do the changes you mentioned and have an EICR done and you should be good. 

 

1 note: 16A radial is OK for 1 socket but if you add it would usually be a 20A - bearing in mind a 13A plug is only 3A less than your combined total of a 16A so if you plugged in two 10A loads... I'd look into having that checked out and increased to 20A assuming 2.5mm T&E was used for full run and it is not excessively long, that will be fine - chances are that was just a spare way and a spark used it out of laziness though - you may also know your loads will always just be small appliances in which case, just leave it alone but the additional sockets does suggest you have more consumers to plug in... 

 

Looking at that board with all the squint MCB's I would get someone to check it all, I would want them all loosened off the busbar, straightened up and re-torqued.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Carrerahill

[Carrerahill]

2 hours ago, markc said:

Changing the internal and external lights is no problem, but you cannot add extra sockets to the 16a spur

Yes he can.

 

It is a radial not a spur. Would be better to be a 20A but totally safe to put them on a 16A - if anything just overprotected. 

[Carrerahill]

1 hour ago, markc said:

You can add as many extra sockets to a radial as you want as long as you feed them of a fused unit after the radial socket ... hope that make sense.

I.E if you added a fused spur (13a) you could run extra sockets from that supply ... like plugging in a 4 /4/10way extension lead.

You cant just duplicate the first one tho.

I think you are confusing spurs and radial circuits. 

[dangti6]

4 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

Your changes are so long ago now that there is not really going to be evidence of this very recent electrical work so I doubt someone will specifically start looking for the cert - a simple electrical test and inspection to cover the house as a whole will be fine. 

 

It is good you are thinking about it but why would a potential buyer single out the shower and go asking for the cert? They would not.

 

When I bought this place I just bought it, electrics were rough it transpired but how would I know from looking on the surface was what new and what was not unless clearly obvious. At 5 years it's pretty much water under the bridge. You say you won't sell for a long while, so it will be even more water under the bridge. By that time good electrics from 5 years ago might be faulty anyway - the cert is more or less useless now - he should have checked all the circuits at the time, providing a test report with the readings, but to be honest, those readings are like an MoT for a car from 5 years ago. 

 

Get your spark (suggest another one now!) in to do the changes you mentioned and have an EICR done and you should be good. 

 

1 note: 16A radial is OK for 1 socket but if you add it would usually be a 20A - bearing in mind a 13A plug is only 3A less than your combined total of a 16A so if you plugged in two 10A loads... I'd look into having that checked out and increased to 20A assuming 2.5mm T&E was used for full run and it is not excessively long, that will be fine - chances are that was just a spare way and a spark used it out of laziness though - you may also know your loads will always just be small appliances in which case, just leave it alone but the additional sockets does suggest you have more consumers to plug in... 

 

Looking at that board with all the squint MCB's I would get someone to check it all, I would want them all loosened off the busbar, straightened up and re-torqued.

 

 

Thanks, very much water under the bridge as you say. 
 

Not intending on powering anything heavy out there. Intention is a total of 5 double sockets - purely so there’s a good spread of power points around the room where you need it. Somewhere to plug the trickle charger in depending where the car is parked, the vacuum cleaner and charging my power tool batteries. May see how the 16a goes first before changing for 20a. 
 

I do actually have a double socket out there on the integral wall spurred from the 32a ring which I can use for anything with a higher draw.