Serving notice to remove equipment

[a_badger]

Sorry if posting in the wrong place.

 

I am currently speaking to the wayleave dept at SSE. Short story is I have an overheard cable routed over 2 x poles on my property. 
Ive ownen the property for 6 months and wish to begin some development work. 
 

I wish to serve notice one just one of the poles (rear pole situated in back garden) as this pole does not benefit me, it’s sole purpose is to enable the cable to route across my garden to provide my neighbours supply.

 

my property can quite easily be supplied via overhead cable using the pole in the corner of my driveway at the front. 

 

I started by 1st of all getting an extortionate quote for 10k to underground the cable and remove the poles. So this not being something I’m prepared to stump up for, I then began communication with wayleave (they have not been able to provide a legacy wayleave document which mentions the poles) 

 

So I have explained the situation to the assigned wayleave officer. I’ve told him I’m happy to keep the front pole in order to maintain the supply to my property but I would like the pole to the rear removed.

 

He has informed me I can only serve noice on all equipment and not just the pole at the rear. Also he is trying to scare me off by suggesting once I serve notice my own supply will be affected and I will have to fund a new connection.

 

can anyone confirm if this is correct? Am I only able to serve notice on all equipment hosted on my property? This really reminds me of a spoilt brat at the park running off with his football so others can’t play with it if he decides he doesn’t want to play!!! 
 

would be really grateful if anyone with similar experience can advise.

 

cheers all!

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, a_badger said:

He has informed me I can only serve noice on all equipment and not just the pole at the rear.

I asked for oversailing cables to be moved so I could build my house. I didn't mention specific poles but they came up with a scheme which involved moving poles and they showed me and I accepted. It was with UKPN and eleven years ago so maybe they are getting more stroppy now. If you just ask for the cable to be moved they will have to remove that pole.

[Bozza]

So my experience with SSE was excellent.  Like Peter I had oversailing cables & two poles.  These only supplied my property, not a third party, and to have one pole removed and the overhead supply converted to underground from the second pole.  This sounds like what you needed and it cost me a nominal sum less than 2k most of which was refunded because I pulled down & disposed of the unwanted pole myself.

 

Your main problem though is the third party supply/pole(s).   Not something that I experienced but I do recall from my own research some utility suppliers do have some legal rights to place equipment, and keep equipment on private land, and lawful processes via Wayleaves.  But also landowners do have some rights to have equipment removed.  My research was via Telecommuncations Act as it related to getting Openreach to remove third party phone lines from said electricity poles.  I expect the electricity suppliers (DNOs) will have relevant legislation in terms what they can and cannot do.  You won’t need a solicitor to identify your rights (or lack of) it will be detailed in the relevant legislation which you need to research.  The Wayleaves officer will tell you which Acts apply in your case.   Bottom line is that they (and you) will have to follow the legislative process, whatever that is.   If the Wayleaves officer is claiming you cannot be specific in which equipment you wish removed ask him to highlight the relevant section that says that.

 

Something also sticks in my mind (but I’m not certain) that the regulators require utility companies have to have fixed prices for work eg per metre to run a line etc.  To prevent overcharging.  I seem to recall seeing a price list but that may have been Openreach as opposed to SSE.    

I would imagine your first option of paying them to reroute underground is probably them doing the trenching.  If you do the trench yourself you will save a lot off their quote.   A lot.   If you post a copy of the SSE quotation siteplan this may assist us in providing advice,

 

 

 

 

[Faz]

UKPN have 'contestable' and 'non-contestable' charges with the non-contestable charges being for works you are unable to undertake yourself and are therefore regulated.

[a_badger]

17 hours ago, Bozza said:

So my experience with SSE was excellent.  Like Peter I had oversailing cables & two poles.  These only supplied my property, not a third party, and to have one pole removed and the overhead supply converted to underground from the second pole.  This sounds like what you needed and it cost me a nominal sum less than 2k most of which was refunded because I pulled down & disposed of the unwanted pole myself.

 

Your main problem though is the third party supply/pole(s).   Not something that I experienced but I do recall from my own research some utility suppliers do have some legal rights to place equipment, and keep equipment on private land, and lawful processes via Wayleaves.  But also landowners do have some rights to have equipment removed.  My research was via Telecommuncations Act as it related to getting Openreach to remove third party phone lines from said electricity poles.  I expect the electricity suppliers (DNOs) will have relevant legislation in terms what they can and cannot do.  You won’t need a solicitor to identify your rights (or lack of) it will be detailed in the relevant legislation which you need to research.  The Wayleaves officer will tell you which Acts apply in your case.   Bottom line is that they (and you) will have to follow the legislative process, whatever that is.   If the Wayleaves officer is claiming you cannot be specific in which equipment you wish removed ask him to highlight the relevant section that says that.

 

Something also sticks in my mind (but I’m not certain) that the regulators require utility companies have to have fixed prices for work eg per metre to run a line etc.  To prevent overcharging.  I seem to recall seeing a price list but that may have been Openreach as opposed to SSE.    

I would imagine your first option of paying them to reroute underground is probably them doing the trenching.  If you do the trench yourself you will save a lot off their quote.   A lot.   If you post a copy of the SSE quotation siteplan this may assist us in providing advice,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Bozza

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I've attached a plan of the proposed redirection work. the scale is 1:500 so I calculate the work to involve 40m of underground cable.

As you can see from the plan, I can quite easily take a supply to the front of my property. Leaving the rear cable for the sole purpose of supplying the neighboring property. Which is why I assumed I am able to simply serve notice on the equipment to the rear.

 

The quote I have received is 10k and this is on the basis of excavation and reinstatement works being carried out by myself.

 

I have also applied to the connections department to quote me on a brand new connection. So my thinking is that if this comes in significantly lower than the underground diversion quote I have some leverage over them. I can simply serve notice on all of the equipment (which I am within my rights to do and they must comply with) which I would hope, will  prompt them into negotiating with me on the original underground diversion quote?

 

 

[Bozza]

Would it be possible for you to dig a trench where I’ve marked in red.  And supply conduit etc. 

 

that would involve SSE having to run the two supplies down pole A and through your trench to pole B (on neighbours land).  To keep neighbour connected.  Then take your supply in from that point.  So your suppling a route fir your supply and a route for neighbours.

 

as such SSE quote would be for a couple of engineers for a day and the price of the new cable runs.

 

To do the trench conduit is cheap, as is sand.  Mini digger & driver few hundred quid.

 

Then you could approve a wayleave for SSE running neighbours supply underground along east & south perimeter of your land through your trench.

Thing is regardless whether you can legally tell them to remove their equipment as far as I can see this option would give everyone what they need and fir you at a much lower cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[a_badger]

4 hours ago, Bozza said:

Would it be possible for you to dig a trench where I’ve marked in red.  And supply conduit etc. 

 

that would involve SSE having to run the two supplies down pole A and through your trench to pole B (on neighbours land).  To keep neighbour connected.  Then take your supply in from that point.  So your suppling a route fir your supply and a route for neighbours.

 

as such SSE quote would be for a couple of engineers for a day and the price of the new cable runs.

 

To do the trench conduit is cheap, as is sand.  Mini digger & driver few hundred quid.

 

Then you could approve a wayleave for SSE running neighbours supply underground along east & south perimeter of your land through your trench.

Thing is regardless whether you can legally tell them to remove their equipment as far as I can see this option would give everyone what they need and fir you at a much lower cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes this is exactly what I proposed to be the best solution, but as mentioned in my previous post. The 10k I have been quoted is based upon me digging the trench! So all they are doing is providing the cable and removing the poles.

 

Seems way over the top to me.

[Bozza]

Ok so that’s definitely expensive.

[andymb]

my understanding is that you can give notice to remove specific apparatus (doesn't have to be all of it)

have a look at paragraph 2.12 (page 11) and Annex A (page 32) of this document : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/274713/wayleave_guidance.pdf

[a_badger]

An update on this.

 

I have now served notice to SSE for them to remove their equipment. This was on 17th May.

On the 17th of June an engineer attended site in order to asses the current route to enable them to design an alternative.

 

I haven't heard anything since their visit on the 17th June.

 

Their process states that the have 3 months to log my serving notice with the department of business and energy during which time they may apply for a necessary wayleave.

I am hoping that at some point before we reach the 3 month mark (17th August) they will contact me hopefully to start a negotiation over the ridiculous 10k quote revived to have the cables under grounded.

 

this is the email revived from the SSE land consents manager outlining the process.

 

Your email requesting the removal of SSEN’s apparatus has triggered the termination process which roughly goes as follows:

• Written notice to terminate is received from the landowner.
• SSEN are required to log this with the Department of Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy (BEIS) within 3 months of receipt. A provisional application for a Necessary Wayleave may be made at this point as a contingency measure should it be later determined that SSEN are required to retain the equipment on your land
• A site visit is conducted by the Network Designer and Land Consents Manager.
• An alternative engineering solution is designed and costed. Please be aware that should the landowner’s supply be part of the equipment that has been terminated, the landowner will be required to bear the full cost of reinstating their own supply or supplies to their properties. The landowner’s new supply will also be subject to SSEN gaining the appropriate rights for the connection from any applicable third parties.
• A design is submitted to the Engineering and Investment team who will decide whether to contest the wayleave termination or carry out the suggested works.
• The Land Consents Manager then proceeds to attempt to gain any required consents for the new proposed route.
• Once the Land Consents Manager notifies the Designer that the route is legally clear the project can be passed to the construction team for programming and completion.

 

[Oxonian]

a_badger, if you're still subscribing here, is there any update on your negotiation? I'm facing a similar problem and it would be really helpful to hear more of your experience.

[Squirl]

I would be interested in the outcome too as I am in a similar position with UK Power Networks as I need an OH LV cable removed from over my bungalow and placed underground -  it looks to me as if a_badger has been discouraged due to the onerous conditions and costs for a new supply quoted by SSEN. If you are still subscribing Oxonian an update would be very helpful to me!

[AL1]

Just wondering if there’s been any movement on this thread as I too am involved with SSE , looking to get poles/overhead lines put underground.

Interestingly, I had running parallel to these discussions, negotiations over granting SSE a Deed of Easement. SSE have now agreed to pay me if I sign a Deed of Easement, which gives them siting of, and access to, the poles - in perpetuity.

The offer is a decent amount, but I’m cautious because of the ‘in perpetuity’ aspect. 
 

No offer yet regarding redirecting cables underground. Not sure if I’m dealing with two separate departments that aren’t communicating with each other.
 

Thoughts ?

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> Not sure if I’m dealing with two separate departments that aren’t communicating with each other.

 

I believe this is the same department for most DNOs, sometimes called 'wayleaves dept' - maybe two different people though. Offer to connect them up  ?

[Foxham Flag]

This is an interesting discussion are there any updates please?

I have a neighbour who had poles removed and cables put underground by SSE in 2020 and he paid them nothing.

He dug the trenches to put the cables underground both for his house and a neighbour.

I have made a similar request to remove cables and poles and put the cables underground on my land and above my barn which now has planning to be a house .SSE wayleaves said ask SSE connections as it would be quicker. I did they have quoted £75k which is a joke.

SSE wayleaves are still working on a quote. I gave them notice in 2019. 5 years later they are saying I may get a quote next week. Delays are due to COVID!!!! apparently 

[Alan Ambrose]

Hmmm a bit of game that DNOs play, some more hardball than others. Yes, of course they'll remove their equipment / no, they cannot say how long before they get to it / yes, they'll be happy to give you a quote to move it in a shorter timescale. It is their business, and yes they're pretty good at this game.

 

How long are the cables / what kind / how many poles? Before I bought it, my plot had some cables moved from overflying to underground and one new pole put in. Original overhead route was ~43m, new underground route was ~31m, one extra pole, cost £16.2K. This was UKPN.