Boost a Main

[GaryM]

On 19/09/2021 at 11:16, Nickfromwales said:

OK, the DAB unit you linked is simply a pump that sucks water out of a A>B break tank ( a barrel basically ). Barrel runs dry, outlets 100% cease to flow. Major issue

I'm not sure if your are referring to my post, but this does not happen with the DAB system I'm using i,.

 

I does not in crease flowrate (just marginally), just the pressure. The tank is just used to give instant pressure, once flowing the pump is pumping the main water straight through system.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

On 30/08/2021 at 11:28, GaryM said:

It's very simple to install, just put  in your main water supply.

Quote from DAB's website:-

 

"The ESYBOX MINI 3 cannot be connected directly to the mains water supply, it must be connected to a suitable break tank."

 

In some areas, putting a vacuum deficit onto the cold mains is a prosecutable offence....

Edited September 22, 2021 by Nickfromwales

[Adsibob]

Just to clarify, the system I was posting about is not the ESYBOX Mini 3. It's this thing, which comes with its own 500L tank: https://www.anglianpumping.com/product/mains-pressure-boosting-systems/dab-e-sybox-c-w-e-sytank?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1ouKBhC5ARIsAHXNMI93Qsi2b1wAbDB6E16CY3mmkYWoD3BRsFDhgUbhNJKbrRGgr06Om8EaAkg_EALw_wcB

[fezster]

Just reading up on the E.Sybox and it's a break tank setup, like Nick says. The ~500L tank fills with water and then this is pumped out at up to 6/7 bar, if needed. A nice compact unit if your incoming flow/pressure is totally inadequate.

 

However, pretty certain it will stop functioning once the tank is run dry. Most water companies allow a maximum of 12L/min to be pumped directly from the mains - either way, the E.Sybox doesn't seem to be linked to the mains in any way.

[Adsibob]

So my options are basically:

- pay Thames Water £4k to upgrade my connection, without any guarantee of what it will be like after the upgrade; or 

- buy the E. Sybox and get my plumber to install that. This won’t actually be much cheaper than the Thames Water quote, because I need to spend some money upgrading the structure of my loft floor to cope with the 650kg weight of the E. Sybox.

 

It’s odd because over the phone Thames Water said i should have enough pressure “for your needs” and about 16L a minute, but when I asked them to put it in writing they apparently couldn’t. To me, that stinks. 

[fezster]

You have good static pressure, though, so an accumulator would be cheaper and less prone to failure (no expensive pump). You'd still have the weight problem regardless, although a composite tank would be lighter. 

 

A 450L composite tank will set you back around £800.

[Adsibob]

8 minutes ago, fezster said:

You have good static pressure, though, so an accumulator would be cheaper and less prone to failure (no expensive pump). You'd still have the weight problem regardless, although a composite tank would be lighter. 

 

A 450L composite tank will set you back around £800.

Thanks @fezster. Is a composite tank the same as an accumulator? Sorry, I’m probably being super dim.

[Nickfromwales]

1 hour ago, Adsibob said:

Thanks @fezster. Is a composite tank the same as an accumulator? Sorry, I’m probably being super dim.

No. An accumulator is a sealed and pressurised expansion vessel. It stores water under pressure. 
The composite tank is a bucket of water, open to atmosphere and stagnant until used by the pump sucking it out and forcing it through your pipework. The pump can empty the tank quicker than a poor cold mains could refill it, so when it’s empty your taps run bone dry.  

[fezster]

This is a composite accumulator, which as far as I can tell, looks identically manufactured to a Stuart Turner Mains Boost:

 

https://www.anglianpumping.com/product/accumulator-tanks/gws-450-litre-composite-accumulator-c2b-450lv

[GaryM]

On 22/09/2021 at 12:55, Nickfromwales said:

Quote from DAB's website:-

 

"The ESYBOX MINI 3 cannot be connected directly to the mains water supply, it must be connected to a suitable break tank."

 

In some areas, putting a vacuum deficit onto the cold mains is a prosecutable offence....

It has an inbuilt tank and designed so you don't need any other components.

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

21 minutes ago, GaryM said:

It has an inbuilt tank and designed so you don't need any other components.

 

 

Sorry, I don’t get your point. 
I have said it has a tank, that’s the problem. 
It’s design is one thing, but it boasts a lot without recognition of its flaws and subsequent intolerable failings.

The ‘tank’ is exactly that, and not a pressure vessel? Ergo, when it’s dry, you stop getting wet  

[tomcoleman]

So i wanted to circle back to this topic and my orginal post/install back from 2021 its been almost 3 years with running the system.

 

My overall thoughts was it worth investing in this system for £3-4k i would say no.

 

Heres my reasons(s) why

 

1) Support from greatwater / friendly water - They choose which emails to reply to support seems limited and after sales care / dealing with questions feels like they arent really intrested.

 

2) the orginal video of the demo of water BLASTING out of showers isnt what ive seen its nothing like "blasting out" most likley this demo was setup on larger pipes / higher pressure

 

3) it added about 20-30% better pressure/flow to my house which is all 15mm with 28mm delivery. If you still flush a toilet even with the accumlator fully charged you can see pressure drop.

 

I feel abit cheated in what i was sold its not a 100% soultion more like a band-aid. When i asked about having hotel pressure i was told to buy another unit, my issue isnt water storage its pressure delivery, even if i adjust the PRV pressure/flow rate just doesnt come from the boost-a-main for long.

 

I'm thinking about ripping the system out and installing a pump and header tank now.

[Dave Jones]

On 04/03/2021 at 19:18, tomcoleman said:

hi 

 

i have a unvented system in the loft, mains into the house is MDPE PIPE BLUE 25MM this goes into a PRV and then onto the unvented tank.

 

My pressure is not very good, unfortunately my PRV doesn't have any gauges so i cant tell what pressure is in/out but when showering its low pressure.

 

I have been looking at 3 systems to boost the pressure.

 

1. Boost a Main

(19) Boost A Main Power - YouTube

Home | Boost-a-Main

 

2. Stuart Turner (pumped)

Mainsboost MB 200SH-1-22 | Hot Water Cylinder | Stuart Turner (stuart-turner.co.uk)

 

3. Salamander

AccuBoost Accumulator Tanks | Salamander Pumps Mains Booster Range

 

all 3 seem to use a accumulator that is pumped, the pumped part seems to be the main difference with Boost a main on the youtube video looking really powerful.

 

Does anyone run any of these systems on a unvented system, does it really increase pressure much??

 

any help of advice would be great

 

used one of these, handles 4 showers, dishawashers, washing machine, 5 toilet flushes and 6 handbasins at same time with no loss. tested it...

 

https://www.anchorpumps.com/gws-challenger-300l-vertical-pressure-vessel

 

 

[tomcoleman]

2 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

 

used one of these, handles 4 showers, dishawashers, washing machine, 5 toilet flushes and 6 handbasins at same time with no loss. tested it...

 

https://www.anchorpumps.com/gws-challenger-300l-vertical-pressure-vessel

 

 

not sure how that would differ from what i already have.?

[John Carroll]

On 08/07/2024 at 10:38, tomcoleman said:

So i wanted to circle back to this topic and my orginal post/install back from 2021 its been almost 3 years with running the system.

 

My overall thoughts was it worth investing in this system for £3-4k i would say no.

 

Heres my reasons(s) why

 

1) Support from greatwater / friendly water - They choose which emails to reply to support seems limited and after sales care / dealing with questions feels like they arent really intrested.

 

2) the orginal video of the demo of water BLASTING out of showers isnt what ive seen its nothing like "blasting out" most likley this demo was setup on larger pipes / higher pressure

 

3) it added about 20-30% better pressure/flow to my house which is all 15mm with 28mm delivery. If you still flush a toilet even with the accumlator fully charged you can see pressure drop.

 

I feel abit cheated in what i was sold its not a 100% soultion more like a band-aid. When i asked about having hotel pressure i was told to buy another unit, my issue isnt water storage its pressure delivery, even if i adjust the PRV pressure/flow rate just doesnt come from the boost-a-main for long.

 

I'm thinking about ripping the system out and installing a pump and header tank now.

 

Is your accumulator pumped, if so, what is it pressurizes to?, obviously the higher the accumulated pressure and the lower the minimum required dynamic pressure the greater the useful accumulator volume. A 300L accumulator with a precharge pressure of 2.0bar and a final pressure of 3.5bar will supply 100L, in falling from 3.5bar to 2.0bar but if pressurized to 6.0bar will supply 171L, in falling from 6.0bar to 2.0bar, and/or 150L if pressurized to 5.0bar.

[Alan Ambrose]

Where I am today is a 5th floor flat and consequently the mains pressure is fairly low. There are two stuart turner 3 bar twin pumps which pressurise all the water apart from the kitchen cold tap:

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/stuart-turner-monsoon-universal-regenerative-twin-shower-pump-3-0bar/79703

 

I know one is 30 years old, one 25-ish - pretty much one for each bathroom. Not cheap at the time - about £500 quid from memory.

 

Two because we wanted some non-panic time-flexibility if one were to fail. This is an old 'vented' water system with hot and cold water tanks.

 

They make a bit of noise when they run and the little pressure vessels have been replaced a couple of times - otherwise they're very good. If the power went off we would have no water except for the kitchen cold tap - but I can't remember the last time the power went off. Because they're twin pumps, hot and cold pressures are balanced and there's no impact, for instance, when you're showering and a toilet is flushed.

 

To be clear - the pressure vessels are little 2L ones (original was 0.6L) - they're just there to get the pump to start.

 

They run better than ever now I've converted them to use off-the-shelf pressure vessels rather than the over-priced ST ones. I would use this system again if necessary.

[bassanclan]

I was considering the options for this a couple of years ago.

I fitted a 500l break tank in the loft and a pump.

You do hear the pump, but its minimal.

Plenty of water for 5 bathrooms at good showering pressure.

Glad I didn't try and solve the problem half heartedly!